HOA Nut House

Management companies contribute to what is, in my humble opinion, the biggest racket in this country.

I could go on and on and on about the stupid things that management companies do. Their purpose in life is to generate fees.

Enough said?

But what to do? I don't know where you live, but my suggestion would be to start with your association statutes. What is the state law about access to books and records, including the financial records? What can legally be charged, and for what purpose? The next place to look after state law, is your own Declaration or Bylaws.

Then write a letter, citing the provisions of law /contract (governing documents) that support your position. Mail it by certified mail return receipt requested to the property manager, and cc an officer of the association.

Now, the caveat. It has been my experience that management companies/Boards never let a little thing like the law stop them in their pursuit of money/control.
I could be blithe, and say you should get a lawyer who either specializes in association law or property/or contract law. And you will end up paying far more in legal fees than it would cost you to pay for access to the records.

The caveat to the caveat. If you acquiesce, you will still have the problem of yet the next revenue generator they concoct. It is my opinion that these cretons must be stopped in their tracks whenever possible. Someone asked me recently if I know of a "good" property management company. I couldn't think of one. And I have the occasion to see the fruits of a number of them.

The one thing I will say without tongue in cheek and in all seriousness is this: When it comes to the books, homeowners MUST find out what is going on in their association. It sounds like you have the experience and background to know what I mean. Now consider that unlike a *real* government, these quasi governmental monstrosities known as associations are usually NOT regulated. And the requirements to obtain a CAM (community association manager) license are generally not very rigorous. In this state, one can get a license with an IQ of your average chipmunk and a couple days of "training" by other like-minded rodents. These CAMs then are entitled to - and do - handle millions of dollars of other people's money. Oh I forgot....the way the licensing agency for CAMs handled the unlicensed practice of property management by the wife of a CAM (and convicted felon)? They granted her a CAM license. Problem solved.

I know how cynical and negative this all sounds. But you need to know what you are up against. The lobby of this "industry" is powerful, and has spent a whole lot of money making sure that HOAs remain unregulated and homeowners powerless. But if you are diligent, willing to research and not willing to be intimidated by the veneer of "authority" that the CAMs and association lawyers present, you can win. Sometimes the best way to handle it is to recall the Board and then scrutinize with great detail any "service provider" you/the new board hires. Depending on how crooked or unethical the board/lawyers are in your association, recall may or may not be successful. In this state, fixing elections and recall ballots are commonplace. In fact, many many asosciations don't even bother with elections, notwithstanding state law.

Above all, do not give up. Pick your battles. Give all this some thought, and plan out your strategy.

What State are you in? Is it a Condo Complex or a Single Family Home community?

ARIZONA:

33-1805. Association financial and other records

A. Except as provided in subsection B of this section, all financial and other records of the association shall be made reasonably available for examination by any member or any person designated by the member in writing as the member's representative. The association shall not charge a member or any person designated by the member in writing for making material available for review. The association shall have ten business days to fulfill a request for examination. On request for purchase of copies of records by any member or any person designated by the member in writing as the member's representative, the association shall have ten business days to provide copies of the requested records. An association may charge a fee for making copies of not more than fifteen cents per page.

B. Books and records kept by or on behalf of the association and the board may be withheld from disclosure to the extent that the portion withheld relates to any of the following:

1. Privileged communication between an attorney for the association and the association.

2. Pending litigation.

3. Meeting minutes or other records of a session of a board meeting that is not required to be open to all members pursuant to section 33-1804.

4. Personal, health or financial records of an individual member of the association, an individual employee of the association or an individual employee of a contractor for the association, including records of the association directly related to the personal, health or financial information about an individual member of the association, an individual employee of the association or an individual employee of a contractor for the association.

5. Records relating to the job performance of, compensation of, health records of or specific complaints against an individual employee of the association or an individual employee of a contractor of the association who works under the direction of the association.

C. The association shall not be required to disclose financial and other records of the association if disclosure would violate any state or federal law.

Can someone tell me the process of firing our property management company and replacing them with a new one?
Currently, our management company has sent out letters to us regarding weeding, hoses not rolled up, slight rot on the bottom of our neighbors front door etc. They've sent out about 47 letters to us homeonwners.
This is getting very irritating. Don't they work for the HOA? We do not like this nit picking observations.
When the management company was called about this, the Property Manager defended that they are doing their job. And they want to make sure they protect their butts. I'm not sure what that means.
Since they are unwilling to work with us, I would like to replace them with a more friendly and reasonable management company.

Thanks for your help.

Ms. Irritated

You need to read the contract and see what the out clause is.Are you a board member?This is usually done by the board as they would be the ones in charge of employees.Also did someone tell them to send out the letters or are they just doing what they are contracted for? Someone is supposed to enforce covenants and in most cases this is done by the property manager.Get the contract and read it or have your Attorney read it and you will have a better understanding of what course of action to take.Be careful of the new company and the contract to be signed the safe way would be a 30 day out.DO NOT sign a long term contract as you will be responsable for the remainder if you terminate them ( breach of contract).Hope this helps.

If you are a board member, I'd like to add a few other suggestions --
1. The board should ALWAYS know what the property manager is sending out. I don't care if sending out dunning letters is in their contract. The Board is responsible for supervising their employees. Unfortunately, this almost never happens.

2. Agree with the above writer. No longer than a 30 day notice of termination.

3. Do not EVER sign a property management contract that requires the Association to indemnify the property mgm company for negligence and other acts - eg any acts that are not criminal or intentional torts. Unfortunately, many contracts do have this provision and boards think they have no choice - if they even thnk about it at all.
You are better off with no management company than one that requires indemnification. The assocation should not be in the business of insuring property management companies. Those companies should carry their own insurance. In fact, this is probably my biggest problem with too many of these companes - it is outrageous. I will also note that there ARE companies who don't have this provision. Any board that signs a contract like this has rocks in their heads.

If you are not on the board, you need to find out what your board is doing. Are they aware of what is going on with the property management co? Or are they oblivious?
You also need to get a copy of the contract - whether you are a board member or not. You should have a copy.

I am not very impresssed with most property management companies I have seen.

Who regulates CAMs in Arizona? A complaint to that regulatory board would be a good start. And as stated above, get a copy of the contract. It has never ceased to amaze me what contracts boards will sign off on with property managers.

The Board should NOT be charged to audit the their own books. That is insane. But again, I suspect it depends on what craziness was in the contract.

Reality is correct here. IN Florida, CAMs ARE regulated. Unfortunately, that regulation is pretty pathetic. It takes very little for CAMs to get licensed, although they deal with millions of dollars of OPM (other people's money) every day. And it is nearly impossible to do anything to a CAM, because the DBPR (Dept of Business and Professional Regulation) does almost nothing to weed out the bad ones.

IN fact, here in Florida, CAI DOES actively oppose any legislation to protect homeowners - they oppose anything which might possibly limit the power of associations. So it is well understandable that Mika might have been mistaken about their position on CAMs.

I don't know what "Anonynmous:" posted this but it is well worth repeating:
"Be careful of the new company and the contract to be signed the safe way would be a 30 day out.DO NOT sign a long term contract as you will be responsable for the remainder if you terminate them ( breach of contract).Hope this helps."

Excellent advice. Also, do not EVER sign a contract with a CAM that includes a requirement that the HOA indemnify the CAM (all the CAM's agents and employees) for negligence. HOAs should not be in the business of underwriting insurance, at homeowners' expense. Let the CAMs get their own damn liability insurance. I will also not that in Florida, the "premier" (read "largest") association law firm ALSO recommends this in the long long treatise one of the partners wrote on association law. Some of that is actually pretty good; tis a pity that too many lawyers in that firm and others don't follow their own advice.

Here in Central Florida there is a CAI member law firm that recommends Management Co.s and "CAMs" to the uninformed, non-elected "board members," who are putty in the hands of these CAI supporting member lawyers. This appears to be a conflict of interest but here in "Fraud Friendly Florida" it is par for the course! We know because we pay the legal bills for these HOA CAI lawyers who have taken over the board in this mandatory HOA PUD. Recently the "board" appointed a man as "president," then decided they didn't want him, so they recalled him. They then had a "meeting" at which - you guessed it - the CAI lawyer handled the "recall." It doesn't get any more stupid than this anywhere in HOA Land.

It is so sad to read these comments about Management Companies that you have all experienced. Has anyone who has written such terrible things ever worked for a Management Company? Have you been in their shoes? Have you ever wonder why some of them are dishonest or on the take? Because in this industry the Management Company is the lowest paying vendor on your payroll. You pay your Landscape Maintenance Company more money than your Management Company that you want to keep current, accurate records, detailed receipts of expenditures, oversee all contractors and projects happening in the community, enforcing the rules and regulations, depositing all your assessment income, ensuring all your bills are paid on time without penalties and of course you want us all to be at our desk 8 hours a day so when you call you have someone to talk to but then you complain about the Manager not walking the property or overseeing vendors. You also expect your Management Company to handle calls 24-7 and handle emergencies whenever they occur. Your Management Company is also the one chosen to work closely with your Attorney to ensure that all delinquent accounts are satisified and when there is an eviction the Property Manager must be onsite with the County Police to escort out the homeowner. After a grueling day of phone calls, interruptions,emergency here a homeowner having a melt down there a legal battle going on and a Board Member who just shows up at your office your all miffed when the Management Report is a day late.

Property Management is a thankless job, that is why there are creeps out there, that is why companies cannot hire the level of service of people that you all demand because you won't pay for it. You think paying less for Management is the best way to cut your budget, and increase the landscape beautification project to increase your property values, so while the landscape company is charging you 50% over cost on material you don't even bat an eye, no they are above board, they would never do anything to cheat you. But the Management Company who is suppose to be on your team you don't trust them as far as you can throw them. It is sad. No one will ever understand this situation until they are a Condominium or HOA Property Manager themselves and have paid their dues. It is a thankless, negative situation job which burnout is beyond any other industry, no one ever calls the Management Company to say nice job, thanks for finding that bank error, thanks for paying our bills on time so we have no penalties, thanks for handling Mrs. Brown she is lonely has no family and no one to talk to. Thanks for listening to our owners complain about Rules and Regulations the Board has put into place, thanks for writing up those violations and keeping our property values up, thanks for spending all the time on that project and linking us with the right people. Thanks for always being here after hours and on week-ends to take our emergency calls and dispatching people to remedy the situation. You just keep bashing the Management Company and complaining about how they are all on the take and after your ideals and trust issues have been recognized by your Property Manager and they can take no more of your insane accusations you wonder why your always getting a new Manager and why do we always have to train them! Wake up people. Start paying your Management Company what they are worth. Everything that comes your way whether it be projects, emergencies, situations that arise that need to be dealt with must all come from one source your Management Company these are the people you should be standing behind and offering your support.

I am tired of reading everyones negative attitudes about their Property Management Company. What about your other vendors, perhaps you have no negative attitudes about them because they can afford to pay you to keep your mouths shut.

Just curious here....was this post written by the Property Management Company? Our attorney (who only represent the BOD) told the Manager to stay off our blog. Then he comes in as anonymous and posts all sorts of fabricated BS. I was just wondering if thats the case here?

Well if Dr. Manager is so unhappy, why doesn't he/she look for another career. Based on my experience (especially in Arizona) there needs to be some sort of regulatory body. After I left the present board hired an inexperience company. He was caught counting the ballots prior to the annual board meeting to make sure his favorite was retained, wouldn't allow any absentee ballots at the annual meeting, although the past 12 years we always allowed them, needless to say its become a mess. An recall election ousted his favorite, but not before he let Augustus Shaw ring up $8,000 in legal bills. One board member retained her position on a tie vote, but again he wouldn't allow votes to be counted if they arrived after the start of the meeting, (a weekday at 6pm in another city altogether). Now that homeowner has filed a compliant regarding the ballot not counting. And instead of dealing with the concern of the homeowner, Preferred Communities needs to run off and hire another attorney. Meanwhile the reserve fund is now down to $1,000 compared to $40,000 two years ago.

If an HOA Board believes itself to have the authority to tow cars off city streets, where would and how would that need to be worded in the By-Laws, Declaration, or CC&Rs?

And, if this new belief has just happened for the first time in 13 years, how might it be justified? Our rules state only the power to take "appropriate and necessary" action. Since when did parking on a city street become a "violation"? This is NOT a private neighborhood. How does the Board acquire the authority to hire a management company which then hired a towing company which came in the dead of night with NO warnings. Help?

READ your CC&Rs and bylaws. If you agree to limit your parking through them, you don't have any recourse in most cases. If those rules are in there, get them removed!

The only property the Association actually 'owns' and can regulate, absent what are in the CC&Rs is the common area designated on the plat map filed with the County Recorder's office. The BOD has absolutely no authority to institute 'rules' or 'regulations' for owners use of their own private property outside any additional use restrictions they might initiated to protect the Association owned property, the common area, the 'community' asset.

This is true, however, the entire concept from a strictly Constitutional standpoint is unlawful as the city/state and developers had no real 'rights' to go into partnership together and restrict land use and sales in this manner to begin with - as 'communism' of land ownership and not the founder's intent in private property ownership to begin with, with a 'corporation' given lien and seizure rights to your property if they requisite 'taxes' are not paid, or if the property is subjectively 'blighted' for something so inconsequential as painting YOUR VERY OWN HOME the wrong paint shade or brand.

'Communism' of land ownership, pure and simple, and no wonder there is so much violence and abandonment of these properties, that and the collusion and fraud that is now fairly apparent which has transpired in the mortgage loan industry has frightened the population in general now with respect to property sales. Who in their right mind, with most of the laws and statutes now they way that they are protecting the 'corporate' Association and special interests, would enter into such a venture other than investors who have no intention whatsoever of ever living in one of them and are only purchasing them for speculation purposes?

Just my opinion, but seems to be becoming more and more the general consensus of any who have ever lived in one of them, especially in those states which are seeing most of the foreclosure and equity striping results of their 'uniformed' and 'changed' contracts these past 10-15 years, without their knowledge or consent.

No doubt 90% of these winers and complainers are Liberals who want. Period! They want! Me! Me ! Me!
If you signed up to live in a deed-restricted community, you had the responsibility to read the covenants, Rules and Regs, before you signed on the dotted line. You should have realized you were giving up certain rights in order to maintain a certain level of enforcable community standards.
If your management company is not performing well, speak to your Board. They are responsible for directing the MC. If they do not perform their jobs well, check your covenants to find out how to remove them. If the majority of your residents are ok with the state of things, maybe YOU are the one out of step!

Lucky Devil, calling people names, what a solution.

The more important question is has a property manager ever had to live in an HOA and deal with managers before comming to work as one?

Property managers are 1) contractors to the managment company, 2) some are paid based on the amount of the monthly contract. Is also reported that they get paid bonuses for every account transfered to the lawyers, the number of violations sent out, and liens placed and removed.

It is a racket. If your small you can hire a CPA to handle your books and pay the bills. Then you just have to retain an attorney. Which should be required that the attorneys, banks, and vendors not be associated to prevent some of the shananagins(?) or funny business going on.

Then the board if they don't have enough owner participation they may need to hire a watch dog to make sure motions are made etc. Or if we just have to have all the hoa's then they should be overseen by an independant group not affiliated in anyway with a service provider, attorney, or managment group to handle everything. But this is why we have city governments in the first place. It was known way back when that this hoa thing could not work and will lead to in this case the CAI becoming the Federal Government. Oh wait it isn't the CAI it would be the C..insert letter here....A! If you think about it, we are just about there. It is all so sick and twisted!

"Absolute power corrupts absolutely" John Emerich Edward Dalberg

"So great moreover is the regard of the law for private property, that it will not authorize the least violation of it; no, not even for the general good of the whole community” William Blackstone quotes (English Jurist, 1723-1780)

“The moment the idea is admitted into society that property is not as sacred as the laws of God, and there is not a force of law and public justice to protect it, anarchy and tyranny commence” John Adams quotes (American 2nd US President (1797-1801), 1735-1826)

“The reason why men enter into society is the preservation of their property.”
John Locke quotes (English Philosopher who made great contributions in studies of politics, government and psychology. 1632-1704)

If your Manager or Management Company is that BAD...keep looking. There are soooo many, what is another change to get what works for the Association.
There are some HOA Managers that really care about the Associations.
Take calls during their time off and work for the good of the Association.

I know there are the others that are lazy, dont return calls and laugh if an owner request something out of the ordinary. But not all HOA Managers are the same.

Sure they care. Like the wolf cares if the sheep are happy! What HOA management cares about is being paid as much as possible. They could care a rat's butt about the long term health of a community because our laws stack the deck to assure fresh meat is in the chute for plucking. And they all come minted in boxes from the CAI and their coherts. I'll bet there's a contract to pay off or buy out of. Who can afford to waste money on multiple management?

Anonymous5 have you ever lived in an HOA or had to fight there bull? Your opinion will change. Beware.

What can you do if your property management company got you fired at your job? I have been a business banker for 32 years in my community. I dealt with over 500 account relationships and was very well respected in the banking business. I made a six diget income and rely on myself solely in paying the bills. The homeowners approached me because we received a large amount of money from a class action law suit. When they told me who they banked with, it was the bank I worked for. When I saw the funds were in a simple money market checking earning .50%, I almost died. I addressed this at a board meeting and told them they were loosing $1,000 plus a month, now it's up to about $9,000, they said they would look into. I met with the Treasurer and President and made various recommendations. I also suggested they put some of the money in CDARS which places various CD's at other banks not to exceed more then $100,000 at one bank. it does not indicate the $100,000 in our by-laws but it's just being smart. During one of our board meetings, the past President demoted to director by the property managers recommendation to the board. She asked another client at my bank to sit in on one of our meetings. The property manager and directors were so mean to the past President and were yelling at her and making her feel that they didn't have to tell her anything? The property manager visiting the meeting could not believe the way they were acting. She had pages of notes on various thing the now property manager was doing wrong. The director emailed two of the other director's letting them know that she had another property manager in the meeting. She wanted to meet with them and myself "the banker". I emailed back suggesting we get a second opinion and they "directors" owed it to the homeowners. I indicated that I was concerned withe the large amount of money in "my bank" indicating the faliure of many banks and then way the economy was going. I in no way was trying to say that I felt that my bank was in trouble but again, it was their obligation to make sure our money is secure. The director sent that to the Property Manager. He walked into the bank in another city and slandered my name as well as sent that email to the bank. It went all the way to HR and four top dogs in the bank. The bank never gave a chance to tell them the situation. The bank was made to believe that I was indicating the bank was shaky and did this on a bank email. I was actually trying to keep the money with our bank as the property manager indicated in a meeting he wasn't happy at my bank and was shopping. I don't know what to do. I have had hundreds of customers call me at home and told me they would follow me when I land at another bank. This is getting to be a blood bath. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Keep the information regarding your contacts close. BUT be careful...after over 9 years in this business, no one has your back for too long.
AS WAS lucky enough to have several Board members stand up for me when the company wanted to fire me. The said if she goes, we will too. That does not happen often.

BUT...referring to above....like I said...THERE ARE GOOD PROPERTY MANAGERS.

It is so easy for people to sit at the computer and complain.
AND they always say, I tried to help or get involved.

BUT this debate is never ending.
Some want the ensurance the neighbor wont paint the house pink.
Others could care less if there are 4 cars on blocks and 7 cars parked in front.

A NO WIN SITUATION.

My Board Memebers always tell me to take a day off, stay away from the e-mail.

SOME DO CARE!!!

Well, to the one'S commenting on how sick they are of listing to all these complaints, do a better job then you will not have too. See for people all over the world to be talking about the same thing in different places, these people do not know each other, no one in here knows one another, so all of us can't be telling lies. So wake up managment companies and stop abusing your clients and start using your education to help make our living situations better, help your communities have a better qualitiy of life, do a better job with the what ever amount of money your getting then maybe someone wouldn't mind paying a person their worth as long as they have earned it, and fought for their communities. When I first started working I was making $3.15 and hour, I worked as if I was getting paid $100.00 hr because I loved what I did, and that is taking care of our elderly. Today I am paid very well, but I give the care to get paid very well, and didn't complain when I wasn't getting paid, I worked hard and paid my dues, and I expect you management companies to do the same. You wouldn't go to a Doctor and expect hafe azz care, if you get hafe azz care you leave, so why do you expect communities to expect half azz care from you managment companies? You can't show you clearly don't care not aiding in fixing problems and then say pay me. What I have experienced from Management company we have is horrible they have made laws to put money in their pockets and our board is too dame dumb and under educated to learn from mistakes and see the truth, these under educated board memebers who have never had nothing want to take our somethings and investments and run it into the ground. Instead of leaving their postitions they get off on the title of President and are running these communities down saying their is no money, well my answer is I don't need to go get 10 people have enough dignity and say I can't do this, I don't know what I am doing. All of them are full of crap, scared to spend a dime on what is supposed to be fixed. I have been informing the law from the White House to our City leaders about this behavior and it needs to be fixed. These people who serve the community as such who have no degree's make it law you must take money management classes, business classes, dispute resolution classes and the list goes on,you can't be a active drunk or drug user, do back ground checks, we need to make your money work for us and not us work for it. These under educated azz holes are bringing our investments and running them into the ground. I say united we stand divided we fall. Keep standing home owners, make your voice heard, make them see what is going on, I feel a positive change in the air.

Hi! I am from Florida. I would like to know if the management companies are responsible (and liable) for making sure the budget of a HOA is respected? We have a HOA (that we didn't have the control over yet). The owner of the development was controling it and while he was presenting us a budget with, let's say, Comcast paid, he wasn't paying the bills. We still paid and since then, he has been foreclosed on. But, we had a management company that was taking "care" of us during all that time. Now, we're stuck with two big bills unpaid ($16 000 for Comcast and $25 000 for a landscape company). Meanwhile, we have always paid the HOA fees, with the budget that was presented (and that were supposed to pay for those bills). Is the management company responsible for not overseeing the budget and not making sure those bills were paid?

I have reason to believe that my Management Company is not keeping a legitimate budget and have requested to see the books. I am getting resitance from them which leads me to believe they are guilty as suspected, as anyone who has nothing to hide would not resist my request to look at the books.

They have stated that I needed to send a letter in writing requesting to see the books 10 days prior therefore I should be able to see the books this Thursday 7.16.09. If I discover negligence and/or misappropriated funds with the books what is my recourse and what do you suggest as my next steps? Do I have any recourse to recap the misappropriated funds? Should I just cut my losses as legal fees would be too outlandish? Do I still need to give a 30 day notice to end the contract with them?

Any insight and/or information regarding this would be greatly appreciated.

Since our board would not listen to me, I hope that I can pass on some helpful information to all of you.

Board Members don't read the contracts. If previous boards signed it, the current board will too.

It doesn't matter if it is your management companies contract or your CPA's. Read them and re-read them. Our current contract puts all the liability on the board no matter if the manager acts negligently. Worse yet our CPA included in his engagement letter that the board is responsible for everything bookkeeping and disclosure included, but he will only talk to the management company. Huh? Who does he work for? This takes away the boards responsibility (by law) to supervise all vendors. The management company, CPA, landscapers,& pool guys are all vendors. Look at the way your board does business most likely you will find the board doesn't supervise anyone infact the board is being supervised. The problem is in the end the responsibility and liability falls on the board and owners.

This is by design, bad or good managers is moot. If you don't want to be held liable then read your contracts and supervise. Watch the books (admin fees, violation letters, board packets, etc), make managment give copies of everything to everyone not just to the president, or fire them all. Hire a CPA, a lawyer, and make the board do the work they should be doing from the beginning. Funds are still protected and reports are still provided but now being a board member isn't just a title. It's a job that only those that truely care about the community will want to do. It is a job that if you don't have the time for it or aren't in town for the entire year then you don't volunteer to do. It also means board members get violations just like everyone else. Board members would have to read the CCRs, bylaws, rules, interpert them, and agree on those interpertations and publish them every year. This creates cuts out the middle man and creates oversite, communication, more involvement by owners, and save money.

Ya know the old saying crap rolls down hill? Board members should be aware of the crap that can land on thier heads but they don't. Because of lack of communication between boards and mangement companies. Management companies don't ask before acting they just act. Board members cannot even do that but management companies can. There is something wrong with that. So you see it isn't always the mangager it is how this system is designed. A bad manager and lack of communication just make it 100 times worse than it has to be.

When are we "homeowners" going to get rid of this noxious HOA industry system? It's costing us lots of money to be liable for a bunch of morons and HOA industry scam artists!

We have been threatened, scammed, harassed, and ripped off by these morons because they know no one is going to do anything about it, and no one can afford paying double legal fees to call them on it in court!

Stop using managment companies and thier attorney's is the first step.

Remove the need for thier services and you remove them. The system can work it just doesn't work when the system is set up like it is.

The attorney behind the managment company is CAI and they work for the management company not the board. If the board sues the managmenet company the attorney will rep. the management company not the board.

This poses a huge problem for boards because the false belief that the association has an attorney is an illusion. If the board didn't put a retainer down for a lawyer to rep. them then the attorney is not working for the board. They work for the management company.

Remove the need for the attorney by hiring your own. Remove the need for managment company by making the board members do the work. Remove the need for managment accounting and CPA's by hiring an independent with no affiliations to vendors or managment companies. Remove the neeed for them and you elimenate them. Don't fall or believe in the scare tactics they use. More lawsuits are filed because of the management company's advice and behavior. When you make board members answer and personally responsible for thier actions they tend to act in good faith.

Remove the need for thier services and the scam falls apart. Bottom Line!

see http://members.cox.net/removetheneed4hoamanco
for infomation on alternative ways to managme your community without hiring a managment company.