HOA Nut House

I'm sorry but this site is restricted to HOA bashing only.

Jeepers, MR. WhatUP!

How can you say that "this site is restricted to HOA bashing only." ?

This is a site where people can come and learn from us "industry professionals."

The original poster lives in an HOA, and the HOA wants more of her money. This is such a common problem that one of our trade papers recently wrote it up.

THe "Community Association Management Insider" has an "advisory board" chock full of CAI's top brains. Here's what they wrote about finding "new ways to make money."

As in "make money from the homeowners." As in "how to make the homeowners pay more."

This just before they tell us that HOA's "can only raise assessments and fines so many times."

Sad, but true in MOST HOA's. But here in Sunnybrook Farm HOA we get to raise assessments and fines as many times as we want.

See, we have a rule that all homeowners must have a GOOD ATTITUDE!

And if they don't, we fine 'em and foreclose nonjudicially to collect the fine.

Only problem with the article below is the name of the management company. I mean, couldn't CAI have found one with a name better than Heil Heil?

Oh well.... I guess we have to take "industry professionals where we find 'em, right?

Rebecca
PCAM of Sunnybrook Farms HOA

Issue Date: CAMI Online Exclusive, Posted On: 1/23/2009

Cash-Strapped Associations May Pursue Non-Assessment Income
As the economic downturn continues, many community associations are struggling to pay their bills. Increasingly, assessment income has been lost to foreclosures and bankruptcies when owners see their jobs disappear. At the same time, costs have gone up.

"Every association is looking for new ways to make money," said Tim Snowden, deputy director of property management for Heil Heil Smart & Golee in Evanston. "They can only raise assessments and fines so many times."

If your community has already raised assessments and fines, here are a few suggestions for increasing association revenue:
 User fee. Residents are charged to use certain amenities or common spaces such as the pool, clubhouse or assigned parking spaces. There are popular, in part because members have greater control over whether they are subject to the fee. For example, someone who doesn't use the pool doesn't have to pay for it.
 Condo move-in and move-out fees. These may be justified because of the wear and tear on the buildings.
 Registration fees. Some associations charge owners to register their cars, pets or bicycles.
 Renting portions of common elements. Cash-strapped associations may consider leasing storage lockers, parking spaces of members without cars, and roof decks.
 Local business advertising. Local businesses may want an opportunity to advertise to members, perhaps by hanging flyers in the elevator or posting a sign in the community.
Of course, you should speak with your attorney before pursuing non-assessment income. Your governing documents need to give your association the authority to charge fees or to deal with companies who may want to put their equipment on your property or market their services to your members.

Hey Rebecca, as I noted this site is for HOA bashing only since obviously you didn't attempt to help out the original homeowner question with your response.

So do you have a better idea where the HOA can get funds to keep the HOA afloat?

Jeepers, Mr. WhatUp

I cut and pasted the cutting edge thinking of the Top CAI brains we've got.

Heil Heil and everything.

Seems to me I've helped the original Poster more than you, and I'm beginning to think you don't have a GOOD ATTITUDE!

Rebecca
PCAM of Sunnybrook Farms HOA

You are a quite the jokester Miss Rebecca. Sorry but I thought you had some brilliant ideas but it looks like the well is dry. So your only point is HOA's are bad and you have no advice on how to bridge the gap between homeowners and their HOA board, or how to make them a better place to live (since they aren't going away anytime soon), or how to help them survive in difficult economic times?

Didn't think so, let the bashing continue.

"...survive in difficult economic times?"

Fines...the plan of attack for homeowner violations in this downturn economy

Whether one agrees or disagrees that Carpenter Hazlewood Delgado & Wood’s E-Newsletter is an obscenity, may we agree that “…with all the stresses people are under in the downturn economy (Carpenter)” a $250 fine versus a $25 fine, a $100 per day fine or a $1,000 per occurrence, the advice and counsel of association lawyers (Carpenter, CCAL [Community Associations Institute’s College of Community Association Lawyers] and Co-Chair (w/Ekmark) of CAI’s Legislative Action Committee) respecting homeowners under stress is a mean-spirited, egregious in the extreme and transparently self-serving “plan of attack.”

This offensive plan of attack would gag a maggot.

CARPENTER HAZLEWOOD DELGADO & WOOD

E-Newsletter: The Danger of Assuming Violations are Innocent-A Fresh Look at Fines

By J. Roger Wood and Scott B. Carpenter, April 3, 2009

There is no free or easy way to enforce a homeowner’s violation of a community’s restrictions. In this economy, we find that Board members and managers have developed an enforcement-phobia. The Association’s duty to enforce is unchanged, but we are seeing that many Boards assume that the enforcement process is too costly and the results are uncertain. Unless the violation is serious, the phobia extends further to enforcement litigation. Boards are fearful of paying “exorbitant” attorneys fees to pursue compliance.

Our statistics show that fewer than 10% of enforcement issues referred to our office ever move to a lawsuit, but many Boards are content to ignore the violations, continue to assess ineffective fines and hope for compliance.

Hope is not a strategy and so it is our intent to offer another one. Our previous mantras and strategies here still apply: “enforce or amend”, “duty to enforce”, filing enforcement lawsuits, and “spring cleaning enforcement letters”. A fresh look at fines is in order.

Our recent experience is that Boards have constructed fine policies that assume violations are “innocent” or unintentional. In simplest terms, generic fine policies establish lengthy time periods and low dollar fine amounts in the hopes of gently gaining an owner’s compliance. Our recent experience is that many owners would rather face a modest fine than comply with the documents. Others choose to pay a modest fine and continue with the violation. For this reason, fine policies must be more severe by permitting the imposition of hefty and regular fines.

The law in this area is simple: a fine must be “reasonable”. While a $25 trash can fee sounds reasonable, why couldn’t a $250 trash can violation fine be reasonable? There is little question that $250 packs more of a punch and may catch a few “innocent” violators off guard. But if the fine schedule is in place to encourage compliance, $25 for a one time violation might not get even the most innocent of violator’s attention. Perhaps it is time to add a few zeros to the fine amounts and impose those fines more regularly. The innocent violator still has the opportunity to be heard and to argue innocence. But the chronic violator that had long ignored a compliance obligation might just do something about that unkempt yard when a $100 a day fine is imposed. The absent landlord who cared little about $25 fines and more about profit margins might begin to care about tenant behavior and non-compliance when the fine is $1,000 per occurrence.

Fine amounts often depend on language in governing documents and must comply with formally adopted fine policies. If the plan of attack for violations in the downturn economy is to encourage compliance by imposing fines against violating owners, the thinking needs to shift from believing that owners will change their behavior over a $25 fine to accepting the reality that with all of the stresses people are under, it may take a bigger number to hold the average owner’s attention.

"The mischief that could be wrought if it were constitutionally permissible for a condominium association to levy fines on and exact penalties of unit owners is dramatically illustrated by this case."

So said the Supreme Court of Virginia, striking down the "fine" imposed by an association in Unit Owners Assn v. Gillman, 223 Va 752; 292 S.E. 2d 378 (1982).

A case that has never been overruled.

Still not seeing any advice. I will have to admit that you guys are good at the cut and paste but it seems you are a little scarce on original thought or anything that would lead to some type of solution or middle ground.

Lets continue on with the second round of bashing.

From what I'm reading, they're not bashing HOA's. They're bashing CAI.

And with good reason.

"The law in this area is simple: a fine must be “reasonable”. While a $25 trash can fee sounds reasonable, why couldn’t a $250 trash can violation fine be reasonable?

If the plan of attack for violations in the downturn economy is to encourage compliance by imposing fines against violating owners, the thinking needs to shift from believing that owners will change their behavior over a $25 fine to accepting the reality that with all of the stresses people are under, it may take a bigger number to hold the average owner’s attention." Carpenter/CAI

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 1:46 PM
Subject: Fines...the plan of attack for homeowner violations in this downturn economy (CAI/CCAL/Carpenter)

My dear Senator ______________ and Representative ________________:

Whether one agrees or disagrees that the attached Carpenter Hazlewood Delgado & Wood E-Newsletter is "misinformation," may we agree that ".with all the stresses people are under in the downturn economy (Carpenter)" a $250 fine versus a $25 fine, a $100 per day fine or a $1,000 per occurrence, the advice and counsel of association lawyers (Carpenter, CCAL [Community Associations Institute's College of Community Association Lawyers] and Co-Chair (w/Ekmark) of CAI's Legislative Action Committee) respecting homeowners under stress is a mean-spirited, egregious in the extreme and transparently self-serving "plan of attack."

This offensive plan of attack would gag a maggot.

______________________________________________________________________

----- Original Message -----
From: Rep. Xxxxx Xxxxx
To:
Sent: Friday, April 3, 2009 2:49 PM
Subject: Re: HB 2034

Appreciate you copying me on this, Mr. Xxxxx. I will follow up CAI's misinformation to the Legislators with some true talking points as the vote nears.

Thanks, again!
N….

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

“Let’s (sic [‘Lets’]) continue on with the second round of bashing.” WhatUp

WhatUp, an extremely annoying question that has (unfortunately) replaced "Hello" or "Hi" as the most popular form of casual greeting. For full effect, best delivered while walking past someone at about 90 m.p.h. so the person you're talking to has no time to respond, and in a tone that suggests you really don't give a shit about "what's up" with them.

Take a pill bitch.

Does it matter who they are bashing? The point is that none of the bashers are offering solutions or a middle ground. Anyone can say "I hate paying taxes". That is a no brainer. But unless you come up with a substitute for paying taxes, what is the point? Therefore, stop the crying and put on your thinking cap. Until you come up with an alternative all you are doing is venting. Sure venting is healthy for awhile; but at some point you have to face reality. And bashing HOA's or the HOA industry will get you nowhere because you are the minority. You need logical solutions that the majority can agree with before you can make a difference.

It would be charitable not to comment on "Does it matter who they are" or the incessant whining, kvetching and hand-wringing of those with little to say of substantive value, whose grasp of significant association issues is manifestly inconsequential and who invariably demonstrate an unwillingness to discover the truth for themselves all the while seeming to profess a Carnac-esque ability to divine that which may be in another’s mind or another’s ("the minority") efforts in furtherance of "making (sic) a difference."

Ignorance is not bliss; ignorance is simply ignorance.

Take another pill bitch.

Hey Chuck, I guarantee I have 5 times the knowledge and experience than most anyone that posts here concerning HOA's. I do know what works and what doesn't. I have seen it first hand and I deal with it on a daily basis. So ignorance is not the issue. The issue is you spend all your time (and posts) bashing and little or no time actually coming up with ideas to help those who post here (as is evident with this thread; do you even know what the original post is?). When someone questions you, you call them Nazis or ignorant on a consistent basis. What is the point? And when I say you're the minority, I mean 1 in 25. For every one of you there are 24 others out there that are glad they live in an HOA and are happy with what the HOA is doing for them (no, not 100% of the time, everyone dislikes receiving the nasty grams). So bash away but you don't seem to be helping anyone or furthering whatever cause you may have.

WhatUp, I think you are speaking to a reality that no longer exists, that is no longer relevant in the big scheme of things. CAI's salad days of TV re-runs, yard sales, and homeowner donkey kong are behind us now. The parasite has killed the host.

Forget trying to tape the balloon back together. CAI's challenge going forward is to find a more assured sytem of control.

In the meantime, let's all come together, hold hands, and sing Michael Jackson's

WE ARE THE WORLD

There comes a time
When we head a certain call
When the world must come together as one
There are people dying
And it's time to lend a hand to life
The greatest gift of all

We can't go on
Pretneding day by day
That someone, somewhere will soon make a change
We are all a part of
God's great big family
And the truth, you know love is all we need

[Chorus]
We are the world
We are the children
We are the ones who make a brighter day
So let's start giving
There's a choice we're making
We're saving our own lives
It's true we'll make a better day
Just you and me

Send them your heart
So they'll know that someone cares
And their lives will be stronger and free
As God has shown us by turning stone to bread
So we all must lend a helping hand

[Chorus]
We are the world
We are the children
We are the ones who make a brighter day
So let's start giving
There's a choice we're making
We're saving our own lives
It's true we'll make a better day
Just you and me

When you're down and out
There seems no hope at all
But if you just believe
There's no way we can fall
Well, well, well, well, let us realize
That a change will only come
When we stand together as one

[Chorus]
We are the world
We are the children
We are the ones who make a brighter day
So let's start giving
There's a choice we're making
We're saving our own lives
It's true we'll make a better day
Just you and me

Lovable Lenny

Nice job of cut and paste again. No advice or suggestions again. Still bashing.

The wheels are turning but the car is going nowhere.

Perhaps one of the far too many physically and intellectually weak, vulnerable, passive, servile and lower-hierarchical sponsors, front men, shills and assorted other association "leaders/volunteers" and their national as well as local chapter handlers?

I have got to agree with AnonymousX on that one.

Dude, take a pill bitch.

Thank you...the interloper's obsequious agreement with AnonymousX seemed incongruent with your previous messages. Whoever the pissant may be, he/she will likely perfect their tripe by usurping "Loveable Lenny" and/or the name of other contributors to HOA Nut House.

In addition to being CAI's Vice President of Communications and Public Relations, you will likely conclude that Rathbun is the quintessential CAI front man and shrill shill as evidenced by his June 6, 2007 mean-spirited rant (spread across the Internet) about a truth CAI was reluctantly forced (by concerned homeowners and the Fourth Estate) to acknowledge, the growing number of scams, fraud and embezzlement uncovered in associations across the country.

Curiously, Rathbun shares a writing style (whining, kvetching, hand-wringing, SHOUTING and pouting) not unlike some that post on this site.

--- On Wed, 6/6/07, Frank Rathbun wrote:
From: Frank Rathbun
Subject: Two Arrested
To: Tenbu
Date: Wednesday, June 6, 2007, 9:29 AM

Tenbu:

You might be surprised (although I suspect you would try to find an ulterior motive) that the next issue of Common Ground includes a major story on embezzlement in community and condo associations. The article delves into several recent examples, explains how the thefts occurred and then offers 10 steps associations can take to avoid being scammed. That's right, Tenbu, CAI is doing this story! In fact, it was written by one of our attorney members. Embezzlement is rare in community associations, but it happens, so we are trying to help our members prevent such experiences. As in all things, Tenbu, WE are doing what we can to help associations provide the best possible governance and management, and the vast majority of them are already doing an excellent job! What are YOU doing other than pointing fingers? That is so easy--and so unconstructive!

This is the last you will hear from me. I have far more important things to do with my time. You can continue to spew your venom. It won't be read on this computer.

.............................................................
Frank Rathbun
VP, Communications and Public Relations
Community Associations Institute
225 Reinekers Lane, Suite 300
Alexandria, VA 22314
703.548.8600 main
703.797.6261 direct
www.caionline.org

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________________________________________
From: Tenbu
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 7:30 PM
To: CAIDirect; Tom Skiba; Frank Rathbun
Subject: A.H. Shaw IV and Other "Credentialed Professionals"
Two Arrested in Condo Association Scam
05/23/2007

Natalia Zea, Reporting
CBS4-TV

(CBS4) HALLANDALE BEACH Members of a Hallandale condo association, along with police, gathered to announce the arrests of two suspects who were allegedly stealing thousands of dollars from residents.

Two arrests have been made as a result of the 17-month investigation into financial fraud at the Parker Plaza Condo Complex. The suspects allegedly stole money designated for renovations and upkeep of the building at 2030 S. Ocean Drive . They would allegedly use inflated estimates for repair work to pocket the excess money for themselves

Manager Robert Hittner, 59, and contractor Ira Silver, 62, are the suspects arrested, but more arrests are expected.

Hittner = CAI
05/24/2007

From CAI's "Directory of Credentialed Professionals"

Full Name: Mr. Robert M. Hittner
Designations: CMCA
Company: Parker Plaza Estates Condo. Assn., Inc.
Address1: 2030 S Ocean Dr
Address2:
City/State/Zip Hallandale FL 33009-6649
Telephone: (954)458-5111
Fax: (954)458-3276
Email: bobhittner@aol.com

What a surprise.

The list goes on....

Augustus H. Shaw IV, Esq, Arizona
Koger Management Group, Virginia
Multivest, Ohio
Robert Hittner, Florida

Who will be the next CAIer to do the perp walk?

Ben Dover, Homeowner

Take a pill bitch.

I'm not a doctor, but I was a TV control nurse at the women's prison in Phoenix and whoever is taking all these pills might want to call CAI's CERT team in Alexandria for free refills.

Lovable Lenny