HOA Nut House

I agree with you about these nazi bastard.We are being extorted by the H.O.a. What other choice do we have,Sounds like you have moved. Is there any other chioces,like a lawyer. I would be thankful for any number or resouce or even advice.

You can dispute the HOA "assessments" demanded in writing and write "paid under protest" on your checks to them, then you must send it certified mail with return receipt requested to protect your legal rights(?). Also you can file complaints with the FTC under the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act if they harass you because you complain about their extortions. Also you can read "The Art of War" by Sun Tsz in your spare time.

Need help in Texas.. Corsicana group calls themself a proclaim POA now is sueing me for past due or forscloser

Have you found any solution to your HOA problem? My husband and found our dream home at our dream price and are closing. We are both anti-HOA he more so than I. I do want to live in a nice neighborhood and like that their are a few play areas within the neighborhood, but after reading the HOA packet am a little frightened. We are already closing so its too late to back out. -I find myself wondering what have we gotten ourselfs into. Any advice would be apperciated!

I agree with this except one thing.Here in Arizona there are many single family home neighborhoods with HOAs. In our neighborhood out of 600 homes 180 are owned by those who actually live in that house.During the last 6 to 8 years weve had many "investors"buy homes over the original asking prices.One "investor lives in NY he owns 11 or 12 houses in this neighborhood
Now these homes are full of renters,not a bad thing except they are filled with fillers thats is any one willing to pay enough money that the"investor"can hold on to the house.
they rarely clean their front yards much less the back.They often are only in the house 3 months
Now add on all the people who so graciuosly mailed their keys back to the mortagage company and walked away.Mostly because they were over their heads in a house payment from the get go.
We pay 80 dollars ever quarter for them to mow a very small common area not a lot to me no other services no local pool again no problem Homeowners are respondsible for their own front yards no problem.Our HOA is broke there is noway we will ever recoup these lost funds.Yes i know they place a lein on these unpaid homes but to investors what do they care?
Our management company has used some extremely strong arm tactics towards the faithful
paying folks.
Ok so to the atatement,stop your whining and get your checkbook out in a lot of ways really strikes a chord with me.

ok ok so when the hoa is acting like an hoa and not the gestapo most people are happy to pay, especially when they are recieving what the hoa promised them in ways of ammenties etc. the problem lies in when the hoa is not meeting what homeowners feel are the hoas obligations. Alot of times it feels like hoas make homeowners abide by rules but then dont follow any rules themselves. i think the best way to handle this is by simply doing away with hoas! I know this is simplistic but i feel it would be effective, what solutions do you all think would work?

"Line their own pockets?" You are part of the HOA. An HOA is a corporation that basically you own "stock" in. If the HOA is lining their pockets, you are as well. Attend some board meetings; they are required to notice you of them and they are open meetings. Request copies of the financials; you are entitled to see them. Until you get the facts, stop the whining.

That's not necessarily true. Our board is still ran by the management company and they have never informed us of the meetings they have.

There's a shady practice going on with our HOA right now. Our assessment was raised in January 2009 to $61.71, which was an increase of 10% from our last assessment. This week another assessment rise came out, raised to $73.71, an increase of an additional 20%. This is how they got around Arizona's law. They doubled our landscaping fees, removed cable amenities and then separated refuse from the assessment. By the CC&R, they can separate refuse, but we can easily tell that this was done to bring the amount back down to a $61.71 assessment. They also stopped maintenance on the playgrounds, changed landscaping companies, stopped parking patrol, less landscaping maintenance and want the neighborhoods to handle weed control in the greenbelts and vacant lots. They also decreased watering in common areas, but it looks as if they stopped it alltogether because the grass is brown. They are also threatening a special assessment. We are only in Phase 3 of 8, in this community and have say in the board. The board is ran by Community Property Management for Morning Sun Farms in Queen Creek, AZ. Nobody wins against the HOA in this state if fought individually, the court judge is friendly to the HOAs. The community is seriously thinking of dissolving the HOA at this point and is moving with furor.

2005 records for Morning Sun Farms at the Arizona Corporation Commission show that they were alomst dissolved then, but it didn't happen. If we do decide to dissolve, we would lose the parks and green belts, a handful of streetlights; we already lost cable and refuse, but at this rate, $61.71 doesn't seem worth the keeping. We don't have a pool or a community center or any other provision.

The board is either run by the developer (until enough homes are sold) or homeowners or a combination but it is never run by a management company. Most associations plan on a smooth build out (homes sold on a regular basis), but that is not the environment we are in now. If your developer went bankrupt and you are in the middle of build out, your association is going to have a rough go of it. More than 50% of your assessment (assuming you live in single family homes) is going toward the base landscape contract and water.

You are managed by City Property Management. There is no indication on the AZ Corp Comm website that it was almost dissolved in 2005.

I also live in the morning sun farms community and have done so since mid 2005. I have seen our fee's increase from $51/month to the current rate. Also I have seen the hoa do less and less in out neighborhood, the common areas are not kept very well. They stop paying for basic cable and raise our rates to go with the yearly increase of about $5 every year if I am correct. If there is something that we can do as a community to either stop all the increaes or just get rid of the hoa I would definitely like to know our options. It's like they are providing any great service. Our common areas in no way compare to most neighborhoods in Queen Creek. WHERE IS OUR MONEY GOING?

I agree we are stock owners in hoas, but often times i see hoas and their cronies treating homeowners more like indentured servants than shareholders. any solutions on how to change that in a timely cost effective and realtavely legislation free way?

Where do you get the idea that "homeowners" own "stock" in their HOAs? That is ridiculous and ludicrous!

The "homeowners" equity is collateral for the HOA, and if you don't believe this, then why can HOAs legally lien and foreclose one's "home" for nonpayment of HOA assessments?

Do some more research and get the facts about HOAs and "stock" owned by the "homeowners," who are really only titleholders of the single family home they live in! In this case, I'm writing about single family homes in PUDs.

And another thing, there is a good possibility that many PUDs were deeded to the developers by landowner "trusts" on 99 year leases!!

Your ignorance about HOA "homeownership" and HOA property rights in this country is utterly amazing. You probably are a "stockholder" in many Wall Street corporations too. LOL.

I was responding to anothers post, i am sorry i am too dumb to have an opinion. I didnt mean stockholder in terms of money but we do have the ability to (seemingly) vote on the decisions the hoa bod votes, i thought stock owners was a better way to say voice havers. also incase you thought i meant we were actual indentured servants i did not mean we literally do jobs for the hoa board members for no pay but meager food and board, i meant they use the money we work hard to earn to do whatever they want with it and if we dont like or dont abide by it or dont comply with it they use the money we pay them to hire people to make us pay them more money or they use our money to pay people who threaten us with foreclosure on a home we cant even live in peace in. gosh i wish i was smarter. maybe one day ill live in a country were a person can say whatever they want without fear of imprisonment, maybe they could call it free speech, anyone know of a country like that. if i wasnt so dumb id try to find it myself.

Hey, if our hoa shuts down, who gets the money that is left over?

me. duh.

Trust me, there won't be any money left over!

But what if there is? Who gets it?

You obviously are NOT familiar with HOA BODs.(Hint)

listen all hoas have a clause that says all the millions of dollars left over will be placed ina pinata and the homeowners will take turns until the pinata is split open, then its a free for all, what you grab you keep. its a federal law and it also has to notify the homeowners via shiny invite cards.

So how do your HOA financials look? Can I really take someone seriously that uses "LOL" (twice) in a posting? By the way, "stop your whining" doesn't imply that you don't have the right to speak. It means you should confront the issues as an adult and try to do something postive for your community and neighbors instead of just complaining about things. Anyone can complain. A real man tries to help.

i agree any person can complain no no wait any neighbor can complain but it takes a real neighbor to help out ! lets be fair all of us here are here at the expense of doing in most cases much more valuable things. These forums are sorta here so people can complain, get advice, give advice, propagate and prostalitize, lets all at least agree to that.

Nah, this site is for complaining only. We all got hosed by our hoa and it wasn't our fault. So what if my car is up on blocks in the driveway. I don't have the cash to fix it right now or pay my dues. I just got done paying off my sweet spinner rims. I can't believe they gave me that home loan in the first place. I am going to strip everything out of this house before I get foreclosed on. Then I am moving to a fancy trailor park. I heard they don't have an hoa there.

You are misinformed i recently started a non profit for profit hoa that regulates all trailer parks with running water and roofs. All our board members are paid volunteers and have no social skills or highschool diplomas. we are working with a newly formed mngt co. formerly known as the hells angels but now operating as shiny happy dollar bills. they will aide us in enforcement of our whims opps i mean rules. we would like to make your transition smooth so be advised spinner rims under 24inches are not in line with our architechtural vision and will therefore be subject to immediate theft and pawn. weeds must be no less than 2 feet in height and 30 in number, there is a one car on blocks per adult of driving age minimum and is not contingent on wether the adult has a valid drivers lic. non complience can range from fees, liens and may result in a non judicial forclosure of property, which is our code for your trailer will be burnt down if you dont do what we say. we eagerly await your first assessment check and would like you to know it will shortly be raised from the current 10.00 a month rate to 100.00 a week. due to financial difficulties the hoa is going to need more money to maintain the common areas and afford the lighter fluid we use to burn the communities trash, also we are under time constraint to get the community beer bong fixed and as you well know that will cost thousands of dollars. thank you!

you sound like the elliot ness of home owners bringing down and cleaning up all the hoa gangsters!

Simply said:

RE [I do plan on living out the rest of my life in an HOA community] plus [ I am trying to help ] equals [have been on HOA boards for 8 years ]

Intepretation: as long as I am in charge, get my way, frustrate others for amusement then and ONLY THEN will I live out the rest of my pathetic, meaningless drudgery of a life in an hoa "helping" myself

Wanna join and be a hemorrhoid slug alongside me? join your local hoa! call your doctor!

Can anyone recommend a good hemorrhoid cream? Mine are so bad I can barely sit down.

I didn't write that. My hemorrhoids aren't that bad right now.

The hemorrhoid cream that Anonymous842 uses has to be one of the best. Otherwise, how could he sit on all those boards with the other association asses all the time? Plus, he is the man who knows the only truths about HOAs, nobody else's opinion matters. He is truly an ass. for all seasons.

Ouch dude. What's with all the animosity? You are getting away from our theory of attacking the opinions of those crazed hoa lovers to attacking them personally..

AnonymousX doesn't speak for the rest of us.

Everyone knows that hoas have been taking kickbacks from tucks medicated pads for years. Its a conspiracy to make decent hard working homeowners feel obligated to go to monthly meetings and sit for hours, and thusly aggravating the roids all homeowners got during the process of "buying" their newly bought short sale property. You know the one with weeds and garbage all over the yard. The one that had liens against it because the previous owner had to let it slip into forclosure because the medical treatment of their roids was so expensive it drained the family finances! BOYCOTT TUCKS AND HOAS! THIS IS TRUE "ROID" RAGE!

This is why you are so in favor of HOA-you are getting paid by them-They are useless and cause a lot more drama then they are worth.

They are in favor of HOAs not only because they can get money out of it, but also because it gives them power over others. Why is it that the worst of humanity always runs to volunteer for the HOA boards, etc. and then turn into little Caesars, Napoleons, and Hitlers? Perhaps these types are attracted to such positions of "power" and authority?

Nothing else can account for the abuses of power and financial scams that are perpetrated by many of these HOAs and their BoDs. It does go way beyond just greed. Also, these types of abusers seem to be easily manipulated by their overlords in the HOA industry and legal profession. The big fish eat the smaller fish, only this time,they are devouring the entire housing market. What giant financial sharks will emerge from this housing debacle?

I had no idea that HOA's were responsible for the housing debacle. Interesting theory AnonymousX.

well it certainly wasnt the banks and lenders and wall streeters that made all the ninja loans. I personally believe pitbulls are at fault for the housing debacle. pitbulls and minor league baseball have been in aclusion for sometime now, and they knew full well what they were doing!

The numbers aren't on your side. Approximately 60 million people live in condo or homeowners associations. Let’s be generous and assume that there are 2 children per household (it is probably lower with the number of retirees that live in HOA’s). That means that there are about 30 million adults that live in associations. If things are as bad as all of you seem to indicate, how come there are so few people that post to this website? Let’s be generous and assume that there are 200 different people that post to this website in one year. That represents about 1 out of 150,000. It seems that you are a very tiny minority. If things are as bad as you say, wouldn’t there at least be one network tv show dedicated to the issue? Sorry, but the numbers aren’t in your favor.

Using the number of posters to a website about HOA problems to come to a conclusion that people living in HOA controlled developments are happy with the HOA concept and control is ludicrous!

Network TV show?? Oh my, aren't we programmed! Sorry, but logic and rationality aren't in your favor. You better come up with a more convincing argument than that, assumptions not withstanding. Who would sponsor such a network TV show? CAI?

At this point, most media coverage does not show HOAs in a positive light. And this fact is surprising because the media in general does not want to touch the HOA issue with a ten foot poll, much less go into the history of involuntary servitudes! HOAs are big business that pours billions into the legal profession with it's HOA industry partners.

Zogby International conducted research from August 2005 to November 2007, interviewing condominium owners nationwide about their thoughts on association living.

In effect, what do Americans say about condo association and HOA living? Are they miserable wretches put upon by dictatorial boards and grossly incompetent managers living unkempt hovels built by sleazy, disreputable builders? Or, do they sing the praises of their association in A flat, with butterflies and bluebirds hovering around them as they admire their Oz-like existence?

Here is what owners have to say:

Close to 60 million out of 300 million Americans live in a development controlled by a condominium or homeowners association.

What you may find surprising is most people surveyed said their community association living experience was positive; they believe the board members try to serve the best interests of the community; they think the managers provide value and support for their community; and they are satisfied with the return they get on their assessments.

Among some of the more scientific results:

About 76 percent gave positive feedback about their community being there to protect and promote property values.

About 51 percent said their board "absolutely" strives to serve the best interests of the community while another 38 percent said "for the most part," a total positive response in excess of 89 percent. (The disgruntled ones usually run around 10 percent based on actual observations, so this number was not surprising.)

In my opinion, association board members could do a better job of tooting their own horns and communicating all the good things they do, in order to enhance their image with the owners.

Close to 90 percent said they are on friendly terms with the board. More than three-quarters of the owners surveyed agree that rules enhance the property values.

Another three-quarters said they thought their manager provided value and support to its residents. One must keep in mind that it is usually the disgruntled ones who speak out, since no one would lead a public outcry at a meeting about how great the board and the manager are. Consider the complainers are only a very small minority in general, or else the board would be replaced.

In addition, more than 80 percent expressed opinions offering only positive experiences in dealing with the manager.

Zogby conducted a (CAI funded) 'push' poll which was refuted within in days of its' release. You must be new to the CAI troll scene. If not, why the focus on the trivial, most mundane, anal retentive aspects of the HOA lifestyle? I went through Tuscon last week on my way to Wilcox, AZ and boy do you have some multicultural problems there! How are you feeling? Do you have a cough or fever?

Roland

From the East Valley Tribune

Do HOA’s protect home values?

By Misty Williams
February 13, 2008

A new survey shows that more than two-thirds of Arizona residents living in homeowner
associations say they feel it has a positive impact on property values, according to the Arizona
Association of Community Managers. The study polled 1,063 Arizona residents last summer.
Some 74 percent of homeowners said they feel community regulations have a positive impact on
values. And 86 percent said they believe that their boards of directors try to do what’s best for the
communities.

These "opinion polling" results reflect attitudes before the housing market crash, so they cannot be considered current.

My posts about HOAs concern "single family homes" in mandatory HOA PUDs. Condos could not operate without some type of HOA concept, that is a given. The condo situation in FL is abysmal, with embezzelement out of control, and with whole condo complexes underwater, and not even marketable at pennies on the dollar.

If you're going to cite opinion polls, please cite current ones that reflect current housing market conditions and current foreclosure statistics. Also, present your proof that HOAs "protect property values." LOL.

Do you have anything more current that backs your viewpoint? And what would be acceptable proof that HOA's "protect property values"?

tjoe shame on you, you know the average homeowner cant be trusted to take care of their own home, how can you expect them to be able to use a computer? We are starting a new computer owner association and i would love to nominate you to sit on the bod. We will mainly oversee the use of computers in our area and make sure they are used in a way that will preserve the value of our posts!

Come on now everyone knows the reason their arent more posts is because people living in hoa communities can not afford interent access let alone a computer, assements are too expensive. It wouldnt have been a problem because originally the hoa offered free interent access and free computer use at the clubhouse but now do to financial hardships the bod has decided the mailboxes need to be painted a new color and other frivilous ammenities like interent access and trash pick up need to be cut so this can happen!

To the contrary the numbers are "on our side"
right now, to qoute correa,

"We are to few to win and too many to disapear."

" we are too few to win and too few to disappear" ~correa

not if we have our way you wont, because there wont be any HOAs hahahaha lol lol!

Good luck getting rid of Condo hoa's. That is a nut you can't crack.

sure you can. any nut is crackable if you use the proper nut cracker! Ted you " cracked" me (up) and i am a nut!

while i agree with what you are saying, (my state doesnt require hoas to have to mail annual finc statement it only has to make available upon request within 180days of the end of year and has 30 days to give u a copy) some people dont want to be active in their community should they have to be active in a community? hoas are becomming more and more prevailant and often times it can be hard to find homes in non hoa safe zones. i think the issue is more and more people feel they are strong armed into hoa communties and have fewer and fewer choices. And it can feel stifiling and almost unamerican to be forced to join a hoa if you find a dream home in these hoa run neighborhoods. do you think you should have to be active in a group or community just because you want to live in a home with the same zip code? Do you feel hoa run neghborhoods are significantly better than non hoa neighborhoods?

You are absolutely correct in the fact that the board and not the "homeowner's" are protected. Generally most documents stipulate that part of your association fees covers insurance for the director's, meaning that they are protected from direct lawsuits. Remember though the board is voted in by the majority of the homeowners PARTICIPATING in the meetings. You can also designate someone (another owner) to vote for you, by proxy, in your absence, for board members, or any other action that requires a quorum vote.

If you have a select few persons participating in the association meetings, they pretty much govern the right to run the community as they see fit. Doesn't mean they are correct, or right, but the other home owners have not exercised their rights in voting them out of office. Also the statement "HOAs protect property values" never appeared in my original posting. They can't guarantee anything except to maintain the property as covered in the HOA documents. On the flip side though, if the property is not cared for and allowed to become overgrown, trashed out, etc..... watch how quickly home values diminish. People purchase homes on emotions based on curb appeal (first impressions). Pathetic neighborhood = poor home sales = reduction in home prices just to move them = reduction in your home value.

In these economic times most home values are down, but historically real estate runs in a cyclical economy scenario. I might be breaking even on my home now if I sold it. I'm lucky, many homeowners are upside down now and would lose money if they sold now. In a couple of years the market should be better, and I will hopefully see a healthy profit if I decide to sell, but I do rely on my board and association to make sure the rest of the community looks good.

As for working behind the scenes to dismantle mandatory HOAs, you can do as you please, but you will find that there are just as many people, if not more that want HOAs in place, as is evident by the number of communities throughout Florida that have them. Some were set in place by developers, but many chose to exist (with 55 and 65 and older communities being a great example of those). You have obviously chosen, for whatever reason, to be on the "outs" with your association, which is your decision. If you and your neighbors agree in a majority, then you can easily disband the HOA in your neighborhood, but if you are the minority, you might consider selling and moving to a non-HOA maintained neighborhood.

HOA are not pseudo governments, as you put it. They must adhere to the same documents you agreed to when you bought your home. HOA do have the law on their side as long as they adhere to the documents and the State Statutes. I'm not sure what happened in your particular instance, but you have the power to correct a wrong, IF and ONLY IF, you have a majority of the voters on your side in your HOA.

I'm sorry you have such a negative view of HOAs, but there are many communities you can live in that either have voluntary HOAs or none what so ever. Once again good luck in your situation.

Your disinformation about HOAs is a powerful tool to hookwink HOA "homeowners" and anyone contemplating buying into a HOA! HOAs are NOT democracies and "homeowners" votes are meaningless after the HOA lawyers get through with the petitions etc. Just try to enforce HOA "documents" without going to court and paying rhru the nose for lawyers. All HOA "documents" are subject to the courts' interpretations and the courts do not rule in favor of the "homeowners" most of the time. Your disinformation sounds good, but it is misleading and full of errors. But then this is what is to be expected from the HOA industry and brainwashed board members!

If HOA's aren't democracies, what are? Homeowners elect other homeowners to serve on the board. Those board members represent the community. If the courts aren't ruling in a homeowner's favor, then they are ruling in favor of the remaining homeowners in the community. And if they are ruling in favor of the HOA, then the homeowner's interpretation of the documents were incorrect. Are you really implying that courts favor HOA's without regard to the facts?

By the way, I believe it is "hoodwink".

In your case it is HOOKwink. Please get this through your head, the HOA board DOES NOT "represent the homeowners!" The HOA board represents the HOA corporation! Don't take my word for it, ask a HOA lawyer.

One of the definitions of 'democracy' is "4. The principles of social equality and respect for the individual within a community." This is about as far away from HOAs as you can get! LOL !!

Speaking of being able to read maybe you should start reading your dictionary and looking up definitions, and also familiarize yourself with what HOA corporations really are and whom they represent! LOL !!!

Your comments are so funny because you are a typical HOA board member who probably has never even read the HOA "documents" and if you did, you would only interpret them in your egocentric way and squash and trample on anybody else's interpretations. You are the HOA industry's ideal HOA patsy and HOA industry employee! LOL ! LOL 1 LOL !

It appears you just want to be the counter-point to valid points regarding HOAs, which is your right. But stubborn homeowners, are what make my job so difficult. By the way, I never wanted to be on the board but was court appointed as I manage a development in receivership. We were hired to manage a lease unsold units by the bank retaking the property. I have worked hard to relieve homeowners of their distrust of the HOA because of the developer, and his cash grabbing ways. I have made no promises to anything but that services have been restored to the community, and I took care of pages and pages of fire code violations and city code violations left by the developer.

For the most part this forum is setup to help people with questions regarding HOA problems or disagreements. You only continue to argue about the "System" and how "Brain Washed" I and other HOA participants are. I actually check this sight daily to see if I can help someone, if they have a legitimate complaint and if I may have a resolution or can point them in the right direction to help them. You have continued to argue for the sake of arguing just for responses, without declaring specific issues you have with your HOA, and what you have done to resolve those issues. If you spent this much time involved in your own HOA, you might have a better understanding of the "system" for which you complain. Also, are you basing all of your complaints on one HOA, many HOA experiences, or what???? I have now been involved in six HOAs and never had the complaints you level against yours.

On another note, because as a member of a Management Company and a HOA Board, we do maintain an attorney, that we want to use as little as possible, because the cost usually exceeds the gain from using them. We use attorneys ONLY when it is absolutely necessary and as a last resort.

Oh now you go and stir it up with innuendo. Are you, by chance, being vetted for a Demo state dept job too?
Give these people a break. Poor volunteer - unappreciated, unloved. Nothing new there - a volunteer to a board position for a 'homeowners' association is just pathetic.

If you don't buy insurance, what'll happen to your children? You spouse?
If you start with cigarettes, soon you'll surely become a crack addict.
If you step on a crack, you'll break your mothers back!

Of all the stupid, misguided, arrogant, selfish proclamations! If you don't have a HOA, then somebody might trash the place!!
Hep me, hep me lawd from those miscreants!!

Go fly a kite Mr. You are nothing but a fool.
Adults who go to the time to spend their largest portion of income for an asset (their primary home) are not remotely in need of a babysitter.

You just want to avoid the fact that it's entirely possible you can't legislate, impose, adjudicate morality and ethics.

This little piece of hell here in Jackson County Georgia has "appointees" by the declarant - his father in law, the neighbor coward and the other total lowlife. Elections? Ha. They purchased a fully uniformed off duty police officer to "keep the peace" and didn't bother to identify themselves and their plants in the last little annual elections. Cross any one of these dwarfs, and they are pulpit preachers condemning with damnation. Never mind the plank in their own eyes; pick at the splinter in their "brothers" eyes.

You see, scumbag with no name, you are all alike. Worthless, remorseless, ignorant malcontents.

Wanna do something good for neighborhood? Move OUT!

You seem to misunderstand, I was HIRED! I work for a management company which has been employed by the bank retaking this condominium conversion here in Florida. I know too much about this property and wouldn't even buy a short sale unit in this community, because of the piping and problems that exist. I don't live here, or would I ever!!!! I was hired because I managed this property, as apartments, for seven years prior to the developer purchasing it to convert it, which my company lost $45K in back payroll, before being locked out of the office by this developer. We filed liens etc..... but still sit in court due to the foreclosure and bankruptcy of his LLC.

Many of the owners and renters were lied to for a long time, by the developer, and rightfully distrust what they are told. Believe me when I say I COULD CARE LESS IF THIS ASSOCIATION MAKES IT OR NOT!!!! My company was hired to lease the unsold 300+ units, then the bank hired us to oversee the Condo Association as well (which greatly consists of investors, not owner occupiers, BIG DIFFERENCE, about 5 units have owners in them). We were then court appointed to the Board, so the developer then had no other control of the community in anyway. I could care less who is on this board, but I still have a job to do. The reason I list the things I have done since I have been here is because many of them were not aesthetic, a lot of people do not see value if it doesn't make a visual change to the community. These are necessary items to run a community, not things to beautify it.

Oh, also I never said "volunteer" - my mortgage company doesn't except "volunteer" as payment. I work as a property manager(GET PAID), and I am APPOINTED to the board(DON"T GET PAID). Anybody who wants the board position can have it, and they can pursue the unpaid fees, unsightly porches, condo violations, etc.... I am tired of people calling my office to complain, but not pay their fees. Guess what!!!! Services start lacking (grass cutting, trash pick up, pool cleaning) if the funds aren't there to pay the vendors. I get paid by my company regardless, as we are paid by the bank directly, not the association. As a matter of fact, the bank hasn't even increased the HOA dues (since 2006) or put forward any assessments for work not covered by the association fees. They have footed that bill all on their own for additional repairs.

Also, if you want to be upset about something how about this!!!! A lot of banks have discovered that if they foreclose on units, they are required to pay the HOA dues on that unit, and up to six months in arrears (in Florida). So they have started filing the foreclosure paperwork, to see if they get the people to move out. Then they start marketing it for short sale prior to the final foreclosure. They then hold off on final foreclosure indefinitely, sitting on some of these for months and months. The residence is still in the owners name who wasn't paying fees or their mortgage, and the bank doesn't have to pay the fees because they don't officially own it. So guess who has to pick up that shortfall, you the owner!!!!!

My aggravation stems from people that say they want change in the HOA system, but offer no true solutions on how to make it work. I see lots of bashing about Management Companies and HOA Association Boards, but very little discussion about what THEY are doing to correct it. I am willing to log on and help people (the best I can) If they are willing to help themselves.

I understand people are in some F----ed up situations with "Dictator-like" Association leaders, but what are they doing to rectify the situation??? Have you been victimized by "Cash-Grabbing" vendors??? Did you investigate them before hiring them??? Submit a motion at a meeting that all Board Members be willing to adhere to a background check, before serving. Then you know if you have the white collar criminal busted twice before for embezzlement running the association, hiring his brother, "Bob" for twice the price, for his cut. Are you in a real bind.....like these people owing $100K to Con Ed in New York, because bills were unpaid. That's true hardship, and a reason to complain, but they are taking action to help themselves.

Exactly what I have been saying since I found this site.

AnonymousX, AnonymousV, Chuck132, LoveableLenny, Anonymous-est - we get it. You don't like HOA's, you don't like CAI, and you don't like people that oppose you. Everyone that does oppose you is obviously a moron, doesn't know anything about HOA's, loves Hitler, etc. We get it. Do you guys spend all day trying to come up with new ways to say the same thing over and over again?

Why don't you guys throw a topic out there, give your opinion, and let someone else give their opinion without calling them a moron. Why not answer the questions of people that could use your help.

We get it. You don't have to say it over and over again. And just because you do say it 50 times, it doesn't change your opinion into fact.

RE: [ Exactly what I have been saying since I found this site ]
Intepretation:
"listen to ME, ME ME"

RE: [ you don't like people that oppose you ]
Intepretation:
"you" don't? - let's not acknowledge Anon842 doesn't either - it's all one-sided...NOT

RE: [ Why don't you guys throw a topic out there ]
Liberty, sir. Freedom.
I choose to live in this home.
I DEMAND the freedom from stupid.
I DEMAND freedom from pathetic, envious jealous "neighbors"
And I DEMAND to have my say, while you have yours.
THAT, sir is the laws of this land.

Anon842 - be brave and bold - disclose your name; search your feelings; yes, yessss, I can feel your anger

And just to be fair, I will disclose my name. I am Obi-Wan Kenobi.

I didn't write that either. What is going on here! My name is Ben Kenobi.

ok so let me ask a question, where are you getting your information from on the foreclosure short sale hoa dues thing.

We just bought a short sale, the seller who is fannie mae has to pay all assesment liens etc upon closing. Which is around 8000.00 yikes! So the owner isn't paying them.
I am not paying them.

Now that the banks are dealing more and more with the HOAs I wonder how long they will put up with the little HOAmies. In AZ they have already started state legislation to get things back on track. Often though it feels like too little too late.

amen !

your information on why there are so many hoas is not accurate. HOAs are set up by developers so they can get funding for planned communties. planned communities did provide relief to city state and county goverments in the way that those agencies did not have to pay for roads and those things and thus opened up new areas to developement. the builders built the whole community but had to have financing to do so, investors didnt want to invest into things that had no guidlines or policies in which those communities would keep those things well maintained and thus the hoa boom was created. So really hoas arent not abundant because homeowners wanted them, they are abundant because homeowners wanted affordable homes in these previously cost prohibitive areas.

Anon842 Moron,

You know for a fact there are no nice houses outside HOAs? Moron.
You know it takes months for the city to clean up graffiti? Moron.
There is no way in the Phoenix area you would buy outside of an HOA? Moron.

Moron.

So your arguement is "moron"? Anonymous-est, you are not helping our cause.

You are correct. But I did sign it Moron (indicating I was the moron).

Clever. Cowardly. Masking YOUR identity, then masking another's identity, too!

Folks, Anon842 is the fella who will leave the scene of the accident. Hit and Run. Save his own skin. Lie about the events.
HOAs, the CAI pukes, and the whole lot of you are the problem, not the solution!

I haven't been in an accident in 25 years. Or was that an analogy? Am I supposed to say "moron" now?

You've got me on pins and needles. What is the solution?

After a long and contentious recall, the first thing I did as president to restore sanity and solvency to the community was replace the CAI management company, the CAI law firm, and all CAI affiliated vendors with independent non-CAI professionals.

No time to waste, we then proceeded to go after the previous board for theft, conversion and fraud; after 2.5 years, the association was awarded a judgment for $46,000 plus $26k in attorneys fees. It was a lot of work, but peace within the community and integrity in the balance sheet was finally restored. Love was once again in the air and there was money in the bank.

The solution is: eliminate any CAI involvement in your community and many of your HOAs' problems will go away overnight. It will not be easy and they will attempt to use proxies in the community with mental health problems to infiltrate and undermine your efforts as you replace them with independent professionals without all the secret handshakes, silly rhetoric, and hidden Fabian agendas.

Lovable Lenny

I wouldn't disagree with that approach. If you had a corrupt board, that would lead me to believe you had vendor issues as well. There are plenty of bad management companies and ineffective law firms.

Frankly, this is very simplistic view of HOAs in 2009, many have already hit the "Iceberg" fighting to remain solvent in a sea of an accelerating decline of property values, revenues, and services. The future viability of these mandated communities is bleak.

Recent bills to address the HOA problematic appear to only further concentrate oversight and governance operations within state agencies already infested with a CAI "Groom of the Stool" culture.

Going forward, as residents are forced to face deteriorating balance sheets, personal finances, and collapsing retirements- solvency and survival- not the minutiae of their HOA will take center stage.

It's not just about the homeowners anymore.

Off the record, many "working in the industry" candidly admit they are facing horrendous staffing and retention problems due to increased rage and friction from overextended homeowners and rising threats of bodily injury.

The bottom lines is: HOAs will not survive in their present form as the stage is being set, engineered, to transform them into compact state-regulated 'human settlements' for a slave class that has learned to love the whip of Central Planning and the yet to be announced Housing Czar.

The management companies with the connections and political clout to survive will be merged with FEMA or Homeland Security charged with overseeing teams of CERT trained residents to be ever vigilant, on the lookout for any anti-social behavior or attitudes.

Lovable Lenny

Don't know where you are getting your information about those working in the industry. As one who does work in the industry, you are completely inaccurate. Even basic logic would dictate that with increasing unemployment, few companies are having "horrendous staffing and retention problems."

How are the plans for your bomb shelter coming along?

I've worked for off and on the past six years as an assistant in law firm that handles, but does not specialize in, HOA legal matters.

Also, I should have been more clear. You are correct the current unemployment situation has increased the number of job applicants, but from conversations with the owner-mangers of the firms, the real challenge is to attract and retain those with the licensing credentials, skills, and work ethic willing to deal with the tedious grind of the day-to-day housekeeping activities, endless bickering over cats, cars and dogs, and guiding scheming unqualified board members away from retaliating against residents perceived to have crossed them.

Even among the more well run management firms, good, headache-free days are rare.

Interestingly, it has been my observation that the smaller boutique firms specializing in the more homogenous well-heeled senior communities seem to have fewer headaches and problems with employee satisfaction.

Lovable Lenny

Boy Scouts - Be Prepared
Military - Stand at the Ready
EMT - bustin mine to save yours

HOA CAI Industry worker - uh, well the sky is clear...
Anon842 - the gummit will protect me...
Liars - Evil WILL NOT succeed

Gummit???

Yeah, gummit. The body of folk who tax and spend. Those souls who take oaths. The reason the body of the Constitution of the USA was written. Gummit = government.

Need any more help > open your mind

Filechurner & Foreclosure, LLP - "We make money the CAI way: From the equity in your home."

Seriously ?
You dont know where we get our info from? How about CNN, local news, the millions and millions of posts not just on this website. Zillow and Trulia. These are much less skewed to be one sided, i mean isnt CAI sort of obligated to skew its facts? I think its funny how HOAmies all use this as the singular source of information, it is like going to a KKK rally to get your information on racial diversity.

AnonymousV: First off, I have been on two boards of very large HOA's (greater than 1500 homes). Second, I am in the industry and have probably read at least 50 sets of HOA documents (CC&R's, Articles, Bylaws). Third, I am an attorney and I work with other HOA attorneys. I am very well versed in all aspects of HOA's and how they operate. HOA's are democracies in which the board (consisting of homeowners in the community) are elected by the other homeowners in their community. Their job is to work in the best interests of the community.

Unfortunately, you are in the very small minority that would like to abolish HOA's. The majority wants to keep them in place to protect their property values. Sorry but the majority will always rule in a democracy.

And seriously, how do you expect others to respect your opinion when you start comparing HOA's to Nazi Germany? And finanly, justify it however you want but "LOL" should be left to teenage girls text messaging.

The reality is that HOA's work when the board is acting in the best interests of the majority of homeowners. Does that happen 100% of the time? No. And if they aren't, there are procedures in all HOA documents to have them removed or create amendments to the documents. All of those procedures will require the majority to be in favor of the action. And if you are in the minority, good luck. So get involved and work for positive change. I do. Otherwise you can continue preaching on your soapbox but with the rhetoric you use, it is unlikely anyone will listen.

I'm not an attorney, but I played one on TV, so take it for what it's worth, no offense, but your writing style and world view is more consistent with a CAI trained HOA board president than an attorney at law.

Dave Edwards, retired

HOAs put "homowners" in an abject position in relation to the powers of the HOAs to punish the "mandatory member" for not conforming to it's dictates.

"The abject has to do with "what disturbs identity, system, order. What does not respect borders, positions, rules" and, so, can also include crimes like Auschwitz. Such crimes are abject precisely because they draw attention to the "fragility of the law." Given what HOAs are now getting away with, such as abuse of power, extortion, etc. "crimes like Auschwitz" are the next logical step.

Definition of abject: "1: sunk to or existing in a low state or condition 2 a: cast down in spirit : servile , spiritless b: showing hopelessness or resignation."

Sounds like you could use a tissue. Time to end your miserable life or move out of your hoa. What is tomorrow's English lesson? What is the point to your hoa bashing?

Todays English lesson is this: You are defensive, agressive, and insulting because you cannot stand criticism or truth and are programmed to defend youself and the HOA industry. HOAs = Herders of Automatons, and all you are capable of dealing with are automatons, unthinking robots who blindly conform to your nonsense and consent to being bilked by an industry that is in most cases unnecessary and superficial, including the over-billing HOA "CAI" lawyers.`You are also an amateur practitioner of the "double bind."

"Homeowners" do not need you or the power abusing, psychopathic, controlling HOAs (Hierarchy of Assholes) to dictate to them what they must do and not do or else be fined, liened, and foreclosed! HOAs (High Order Assholes) comprise an industry of pseudo-"professionals" trying to create a "new field" in which to dictate to and bilk homeowner "marks." In many cases, these homeowner "marks" are people who just needed a place to live and never dreamed what a nightmare they were entering into when they bought a "home" in a HOA (Herd of Animals) corporation!

In this case, we are referring to "single family home subdivisions," not condos, townhouses, co-ops, etc. which are different types of beasts altogether.

"So long as the people do not care to exercise their freedom, those who wish to tyrannize will do so; for tyrants are active and ardent, and will devote themselves in the name of any number of gods, religious and otherwise, to put shackles upon sleeping men." - Voltaire

Please refer to my post "Exactly what I have been"

This self-proclaimed attorney must not really be much of one because the majority does not in fact always rule in a democracy. In fact one of the principal foundations of democracy is that there will be protections for minorities in the democracy. After all is it really "democratic" for 51% to take what belongs to the other 49% under a theory of "democracy"? Of course not. Representation of minorities is an integral part of democracy.

The first error is the claim that Board members "work in the best interests of the community". The only accurate characterization of Board member conduct is that Board members operate in the best interests of the Board members.

As to the "best interest of the community", this is likewise a sleight of hand. There is no metric for "best interest of the community" other than Board members' claim that that is what they are doing. Shouldn't it be what is in the best interest of the individuals within the community rather than what is proclaimed by the "Board"?

Yet another myth is the claim that HOAs are democracies. HOAs are not democracies in any sense of the word. Homeowners do not have any right to vote, there are no open records, there is no right to run in an election, there is no separation of powers - the Board is the legislator, police, judge, jury, and executioner. Indeed the very purpose of the HOA is to subvert basic principles of democracy otherwise enjoyed by others.

After the developer turns control over to the homeowners, homeowners vote for other homeowners to serve on the board. In most states, records are required by state law to be made available to homeowners. Any homeowner can run in an election (some HOA documents may restrict homeowners that owe assessments from voting and/or running for the board). All HOA's have provisions for removal of board members by the homeowners. Most HOA's delegate the policing to the management company and the management company typically handles the executioner's job (fining the homeowner). While the board can establish rules that fit within the wording of the hoa documents, only the homeowners can amend the documents (legislator). Amending documents generally requires a super majority.

Democracy:
1. government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system
2. the doctrine that the numerical majority of an organized group can make decisions binding on the whole group

Anonymous 842 and some of his fellow posters don’t appear to have gotten the latest memos from CAI National HQ.

We are no longer to refer to HOAs as “democracies,” and we are not to refer to CCRs as “contracts.”

CAI’s position is that the Board of Directors should not be constrained by what the homeowners want, or don’t want, as one might expect in a “democracy.”

Neither should the Board be constrained by CCR provisions regarding the process for amending the CCR’s, usually requiring a vote by the homeowners – not the Board – and often requiring a “supermajority” vote.

Instead, CAI wants the Board to have an “easier” way to govern the HOA, as illustrated by our attempts to change state laws regarding HOA governance. This year, in Virginia, we got State Senator Jill Vogel to introduce SB 6016, which would have permitted a Board of Directors to get a Court to amend the governing documents in any way the Board wanted – even if a supermajority of the homeowners had voted AGAINST the amendment.

So please, enough with the “democracy” stuff, OK?

F. Lee Foreclosure, Esq.
Filechurner & Foreclosure LLP
“We make money the CAI way: Through the equity in your home.”

IC_deLight you apparently don't know jack about how hoa's work or what democracies are. Maybe you should check Webster's dictionary. You have probably never served on a board or performed any form of volunteer work for your community. I am guessing your experience with hoa's is limited to the one you currently live in. Before submitting your opinion, you may want to develop a broader scope of knowledge concerning hoa's instead of comming off as an idiot.

Based upon your post, you're the one that comes off as an idiot, not IC_deLight! You sound like you don't know what a HOA really is and you probably live in a cardboard box!

An you base that on what? Me disputing how obviously inaccurate his post is?

There isn't anything truthful in his entire last paragraph (unless you want to argue "separation of powers).

Ignore "him" AnonV. (Anon842)that is. He's an industry "insider" and has perfectly conformed his mind to peculiarity and George Orwell's 1984's "NewSpeak" wherein SERVITUDE is Freedom. Like the sign over the gate of one of Germany's INFAMOUS Concentration Camps read "WERK MACHT FREI" translated "Work Makes Freedom!" (to those about to DIE inside the workcamps-but given HOPE-FALSELY). The FASCIST HOA's PARTICULARLY conform to analogies of Hitler's Nazi Germany! The trains ran on time-the stations and streets were clean, homes were tidy, children well-scrubbed and women were concerned only with "Kinder, kirch and Kuchen!" (Children, Church and Kitchen!)LIFE WAS CONFORMITY AND LIFE WAS GOOD! IF YOU WERE OF THE RIGHT RACE, THAT IS. Everything was beautifully maintained and perfection of appearance was SOCIALLY MANDATED and CONTROLLED! NON-CONFORMITY was SEVERELY PUNISHED! All this civil beauty (on the SURFACE)underneath the polished ideal dwelt the vilest scum of depravity, greed and murder(stealing the skins, money, jewels, clothes, homes, lives and golden teeth of of those they hated and envied and scapegoated)-the JEWS. This phenomenon repeats itself on a less obvious scale and platform with the corruption that insinuates itself into HOA BOD's in the "guise" of "community standards" and metamorphasizes into a compelling need to CONTROL others they see as mere chattel to THEIR "dominion." Not to mention the fact that there is often some fiduciary lapse and pecuniary rewards being "skimmed" or outright taken as a disguised "paycheck" for "VOLUNTEERING" in such a NOBLE and SELFLESS CAUSE. More and more people are 'waking up" and understanding the "noose" is on their necks and slowly being tightened by the concept of "COMMUNITY UBER ALLES" deadheads. HaHa!

You have gone off your rocker. Sure hoa's are bad but comparing them to Nazi Germany is disgusting at best. AnonCRAZYhorse does not speak for the rest of us.

Take a pill bitch

Seriously though its weird to me how extreme left wing views hate extreme right wing views and vice versus. But while you both have opposite views you both act in the same extreme ways. i personally think that this extreme thinking and way of acting is one and the same and has never been beneficial. Moderation, reason, compassion and intrest in more than youself are the virtues we should be pushing. Good neighborhoods are made by good neighbors, the finger pointing and name calling that goes back and forth should have been left behind in grade school. Are there any other people here that agree? why is it that the majority of posts on here are about name calling and finger pointing and propaganda. i joined because i wanted guides on how to deal with hoas and tips and advice on dealing with extremists. this site should be about how to deal or get rid of hoas, not about the nonsense of nazis and hoas are the same thing. sometimes the most reasonable post on here is when chuck, f lee foreclosure, etc... says

TAKE A PILL BITCH.
i am going to take a pill, i hope it helps!

Seems to me dissolving hoa's is extreme.

I guess it may be extreme but I wonder if even stringent regulation would help the situation? At this point it appears to be a huge mess. What do you think should be done?

What states do you own properties in?

ca, nv, one in texas but has no hoa and majority in AZ.

Well, you are lucky, if I recall AZ has some fairly decent regulations for hoa's. I believe they restrict dues increases, require a yearly third party review of financials, require disclosure of hoa documents and financials to homeowners in a timely manner, require notice of all board meetings, etc.

When we checked AZ statutes there were not many, there are no restrictions on dues, does require yearly finc. report but doesnt require 3rd party. It does have a timely manner statute, i am unsure on notice of board meetings, they did recently pass a law that restricts when an hoa can forclose on a home, assessments must be over a 1000.00 and the homeowner has to have had a year of non payment.

what i find frustrating is how different each HOA is. I mean in the same city you will have two totally different sets of rules.
Plus it is hard to go to hoa board meetings for rentals, which is not the worst problem a person can have by any means, usually renters are not overly interested in HOA matters, that is unless they get a fine etc...

Do you know of any hoa advocacy groups here in AZ?

I am pretty sure you are wrong concerning dues restrictions. Since you were promoting dissolving hoa's, it is safe to assume you don't own any condo units. AZ rstricts non condo homes to a 20% yearly increase or the rate in the documents, whichever is less.

I believe AZ requires either a review, audit, or compilation each year separate from their year end financial report. That can ONLY be performed by a third party.

You should also keep in mind that renters don't get fines, the homeowner does. Renters have no legal standing at board meetings (unless you give them power of attorney).

Obviously if they are in non compliance and they get a ticket it is issued to us but i make them pay it... they are not happy and i have to point out they sign contract to me, which is same as hoas contract we signed. And actually the few renters weve had that wanted to go to bod meetings have been allowed to do so. They cant vote however.
I have also had a hoa that issued dup. ticket to both i and renter, I have had that same hoa issue finc. report to both as well. Was kinda nice.

Can you get me that statute article/sec number for the restriction of dues please!

Thanks.

ARS 33-1803(A). You may also find helpful ARS 33-1805 and 33-1810.

My grandmother was in Germany during that time and you have a typically skewed view of what Gwrmany was like during then. First off all not just jewish etc, all germans were scared, my grandma talks about how they would tell you to tattle on friends and family for anti goverment motherland type stuff, so noone ever talked about what was going on. Also the streets and stuff werent clean and neat or tidy. The majority of germans were barely aboving the starving mark with calorie in take. Also being religious was frowned upon, and being catholic was a punishable offence so I dont know where you got kitchen church saying, my grandmother says wasnt during hitlers reign.

People often use these types of horrors to relate everyday sorts of woes. I think it does a dis-service to everyone because it starts a desensensitisation of people. Lets leave the analogies to less disturbing things.

NOW the rejoinder: follow these links to view a sample of German War Propaganda and Oratory-Documented and maintained at this site: http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/posters2.htmGerman Propaganda Poster Calvin Collection

A Creepy howling German Mother standing with her many children and the author of the page where it is shown saying...
Quote
"I am not sure of the date of this poster, but it looks to be late in the war. The text translates as: "Mothers! Fight for your children!" Note that the mother portrayed has four children, consistent with the Nazi goal of encouraging as many births as possible. "Un Quote"

QUOTE! From Wikipedia Kinder, Küche, Kirche
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Kinder, Küche, Kirche (IPA: [ˈkɪndɐ ˈkʏçə ˈkɪʁçə]), or the 3 K’s, is a German slogan translated “children, kitchen, church”. In present-day Germany, it has a derogative connotation describing an antiquated female role model. The phrase is vaguely equivalent to the English Barefoot and pregnant.

Contents [hide]
1 Supposed origins
2 Third Reich
3 After the Second World War
4 References
5 See also UnQuote

QUOTE

"Although the phrase predated the Nazi era, it came to be associated also with the Nazi Third Reich. In a September 1934 speech to the National Socialist Women's Organization, Adolf Hitler argued that for the German woman her “world is her husband, her family, her children, and her home,” a policy which was reinforced by the stress on "Kinder" and "Küche" in propaganda, and the bestowing of the Cross of Honor of the German Mother on women bearing four or more babies.

When Hitler came to power in 1933, he introduced a Law for the Encouragement of Marriage, which entitled newly married couples to a loan of 1000 marks (around 9 months' average wages at that time). On their first child, they could keep 250 marks. On their second, they could keep another 250. They reclaimed all of the loan by their fourth child.

During this period, women in employment were discriminated against and forced out or bribed with numerous social benefits. Medicine, the law and civil service were occupations reserved for men alone[1]. Eventually, women were put back in the factories because of the growing losses in the armed forces and the desperate lack of equipment on the front lines." ENDOF QUOTE Wikipedia

[edit] After the Second World War
Actually as a Military Science student in my younger days, I had a keen interest in WW2-so you are not exactly correct. Did your Grandma travel all of Germany? Austria, Bavaria, all the areas unified into the German Democratic Republic? Sorry to hear about your Grandma in Germany-even sorrier to hear about all the "Other" people murdered in Hitler's Germany. The "kinder, kirch und kuchen" propaganda was real-just cos SHE said it wasn't doesn't make it non-existent. German propaganda charmingly paints German womanhood as the "seed" from which fertilized soil the Germanic hero springs. The German Folk lore heroes are abundantly represented in the War Propaganda of Germany (I shall NOT re-tread the ground). NOW, ABOUT VICTIMS--- I had not the room to name ALL of the victims of Nationalist socialism THERE WERE MANY (and now there are even more "-ISMS to worry about). That task I leave to the writers. I see our nation's freedoms deteriorating into CONFORM-ism. And just like the "frightened" Germans- who unsurprizsingly "conformed" only the BRAVE will take a stand and be willing to DIE for it. There were a vanishingly small number of such BRAVE GERMANS. Even the Jews believed the propaganda up until the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising.

Following the example set for me-that standing up to tyranny is the requirement of honest and decent men everywhere evil lurks, I HAVE stood up to bullies on "the BOARD" who have eager greedy paws on the treasury, and blind-eyes for their "Friends and Cronies" who are "getting a pass" to break CC&R's, and when they began working on ousting "certain" people who saw THROUGH them. I WENT to work on THEM! Only I DID it in BROAD DAYLIGHT! No "closed, privy meetings for me!" I kicked their "fancypants" selves to the CURB. OPENLY and Above Board waging the "good fight" and wreaking havoc on their PEACE and sense of SAFETY and the SANCTITIY of THEIR HOMES and PERSONS. Completely within the LAW-I stripped them and made them run away NAKED and EXPOSED for the weasels they are, before their vaunted "Community." To stay in "business" monkey-business that is, they had to give up a couple of "team members" who just COULD NOT STOP being little Micro-CAESARS. Hahah, I live just across from the toppled Hitler and HE is practically foaming at the mouth now like the rabid dog he really is...ALL of HIS "dreams" of making a tidy little sum of money off of "policing" the "Hood" and writing up violations to garner "fine money" are now DUST. He will have to earn his FUN money off of some other gig. He was terrifed when word of mouth indicated someone was going to put a bag over his head and thump him-to an inch of his life he quit driving his FANCY BIG truck and hid out as a bicycler to go out on "Write-UP Posse." (I had NOTHING to do with that-I just pointed him out TO HIS FACE to an IRATE Neighbor! Thenceforth it was pretty comical to see him jumping at shadows). Wow! all the extras he was going to buy with his FINE money have vanished into "thin air" he and his kind are ANATHEMA. So-I honestly do not give a FIG about dissenters who love the "HOA WAY." It is a "bill of goods" and is being sold as something it is not.just stay on your own turf and mind your own lives and we'll do just fine. THIS whole thing is a major "bore." I have MY opinion and YOU HAVE YOURS. TTFN! As Pooh says! Good day!

wow you can cut and paste! for the record I am anti HOA and pro good neighbors makes good neighborhoods. As you can read from the post you so elegantly cut and pasted religion was not part of the ww2. and no my grandma did not "travel" she was a german citizen, she grew up during world war two, and immigrated to america later in life. She has more of a first hand experience than you, she talks about how people really had no idea what it was really like because of goverment propaganda, in germany they often down play alot of things etc where as in america they play up other things and down play certain things. She is very adamant though that church was a no no. And that life was about sacrifice, citizens should sacrafice for the betterment of "germany" it was your duty to be german and to propagate the german way of life. She talked about how hard work, sacrifice, and the good of the fatherland was all that was important. And I didnt say that poster didnt exist, i asked you when it was popular because my grandmother said it wasnt popular during ww2 but during another time. which is also what your cut and pasted article says as well. Maybe next time you cut and paste you can read the article first. I am not sorry that she was there she is not sorry she was there, she feels in the end it taught her how to be a better global citizen. Maybe instead of being a mouthy cut and paste sabatouer you could think about your actions/words before spouting off about how HOAs are nazi like entities. When you use terms like this you belittle yourself and you start a desensitization of a true horror and failure of humankind. Comparing these two things is not going to forward your position.
I do think HOAs are worthless on every single level, they detract from value, they act in many above the law ways, and i restate that contracts and threats of forclosure are not the building tools of a good community.
Everyone knows the HOA system is a failure, and many hoa and managment companies will even agree reform is needed. I personally think why waste money on "reforming" something that is fundamentally flawed, the best course of action is dissolution. HOAs are like non native weed plants, they spread and spread and devour, they kill native plants and continue on. They take over a land that once had many colors and textures and turn it into a uniform drab landscape. They are weeds, they are not good neighbors, they are ticket writers and ne'er do wells, paid volunteers, and self serving money squanderers. However I find it inappropriate to compare what is going here to things like nazis or darfur or south african townships. I think there are several levels of evil, like in dantes inferno, and genocide and hoas just arent on the same level. plus most nazi commanders actually had to have an education, hoa bods usually dont have that.

Aw-now you've gone and hurt my feelings divadelemort-for that I should cut and paste you something on manners and spelling! Now seriously, I wish you the best but you spout an awful lot of tripe and are very self-aggrandizing and "preachy" and self-righteous. You are silly. I cut and pasted to "show" you the "references" since in every stupid post you've written you nag at "whomever" for MORE "information." You are pretty funny and quite the little trickster. Anyway-nothing else you write will ever have any "import" with me. I think you are just a silly, garrulous jaw-breaker.

I need a lesson on manners? Are you serious? You compare HOAs to Nazi's, you need a lesson on common sense. I find it amusing you call me "preachy" when you use your own soap box quite frequently. I also can see why there is so much "in fighting" within the forums and posts. Its because whenever someone has an opinion that differs from yours you start with name calling and ciritique them on grammar spelling and punctuation. I am fairly certain spelling is not a requirement for FREE SPEECH. I simply asked you where you got the idea that the poster was from world war two because my grandma thought it was from a different time. The poster has nothing to do with HOAs so its inconsequential. I do like to have a bit of fun and I try not to take myself too seriously. Just like you have the right to have your own opinion so do I. I don't understand how you can be so anti-hoa and pro-diversity and then come down on me like you are. I don't agree with you so you attack me and point a finger. You are acting like a bod member. You dont like what I have to say so you belittle me and tell me my opinion is of no "import". I once again have to say extreme behavior wether is left or right sided is not open minded. The HOAs all want us to be the same in one way and the extreme anti-hoaers dont seem to want people to be unique in as much as they want people to be just like them as well. The way you talk about how you took down your "hitler" neighbor is the same way Hoamies talk about how they took down the non-compliant homeowner. I feel like you and I are for the most part on the same side. I have had a different life experience than you and so react to certain things in a different way than you do. It is not my intent to hurt anyones feelings, so I apologize if I did. I felt that I asked you a simple question and then you cut and paste an attack on me as a response. I am sorry you think I am coming off as self righteous, that is not what I want to be precieved as. As for a "little trickster" and "silly", is there anything wrong with adding some humor to life? A lot of what goes on both here on this blog and in real life is silly. I don't agree with your view on HOAs and Nazis so you call me silly and attack my spelling. Your words speak for you and mine for me. Leave it at that. I was serious and being sincere when I asked you for tips on how to get a rabid bod member off the hoa legally. Not many people are successful at that and your victory could be helpful to others who are in similar situations. I think your story would be a benefit to a lot of people here, and how many posters can claim that? not many. and not me.

I love your comments because they are very witty and very funny too. However, comparing HOAs with national socialism is not so far fetched. There are many similarities that go way beyond "just a coincidence, nothing to worry about."

Please see Jim Marrs latest book, "The Rise of the Fourth Reich." He has a lot of verifiable facts, and he points out that the nazis got many of their ideas from the eugenics experiments and eugenics philosophy that was prevalent and practised in this country way before the nazis ever came into power. There is quite a documented history, most of which verifiable, and too many similarities to overlook. Although I think that fascism better describes HOAs, nazi authoritarianism,racial profiling, and considering other "homeowners" as "riff-raff" by some condescending BoD members is very prevelent here in FL. Some of the BoD members here have openly harassed others by pounding on doors and demanding things be signed, etc. Maybe they're just fascists, but they sure seem like nazis to us.

I also think it would be beneficial to actually talk about how you ousted this shadow lurker, i agree the only way to fight evil, is with good. Often when secrets are placed out into the light they lose all power. We have a few over zealous ne'er do wells, so any actual ways legal ways we could use to dethrone these ticket writers would be greatly apperciated.

We need to call for "disincorporation" of mandatory HOAs, as they should all be dissolved and, if possible, prosecuted for fraud and racketeering!

It does not matter if your PUD warranty deed is really a 99 year lease or not! We are still considered "titleholders" and as such we are subject to HOA "assessments" and property taxes.

Our "Warranty Deed with Fee Simple" is based on a "Warranty Deed to Trustee Under Land Trust Agreement," which is "under the provisions of a certain Land Trust Agreement, dated the 23rd day of March 1988, ("Boxell Trust")..." This "Boxell Trust" is a deadend, since no record exists in the county clerk's online records of this "Land Trust Agreement!" We are still searching for the "Boxell Trust." This entire program of phoney home ownership with mandatory HOAs should be investigated under the RICO Act. But that is wishful thinking indeed.

I agree. How do we get mandatory hoas to be disolved though?
I think the whole hoa industry is a fundamentally flawed system, and a pandemic of hive minded thinking. I feel frustrated though because people keep calling for dissolution (including me) but I have no idea on how to actually do it.
Also wondering do you feel we can even truely be homeowners in a HOA. by which i mean if hoa can forclose and is considered a creditor and not debtor, then how can we ever truely "own" our homes.

Such simple minded people trying to address something they have so little knowledge of.

How about instead of name calling, you actually share your knowledge?

Most people do not want to hear the truth. They want to hear their version of the truth. When something does not fit into their version, they scoff at it and try to undermine it so they feel more comfortable.

I agree.

As to dissolving them, a vote to disincorporate by the majority of "homeowners" along with representation by a lawyer to draw up the dissolution or "disincorporation,"as this would involve filing legal papers etc.

Looking up the deeds and land trusts which conveyed the "PUD" or subd. to the developers would probably be necessary as well to determine the legality of the HOA and what exactly was deeded to it when the developer turned it over to the HOA. Whether or not it's a 99 year lease may or may not be relevant.

In the case of the HOA we are defrauded and harassed in, the streetlights were never turned over to the county, so they do not appear on our property tax bills, and are billed to the HOA along with other irregularities not found in most HOAs. There are no "common areas" or amenities here, only a "drainage system" to handle storm water etc. This would require a lawyer knowledgeable in this type of law to draw up the necessary dissolution papers based upon the deeds and documents, and to carry out the will of the majority of mandatory HOA members!

However, fascism is alive, well, and active in modern America. These corporate monstrosities will fight dissolution and disincorporation every step of the way, and the government will probably assist them as they do now. Government and corporations working together and vice-versa still equals fascism!

I just posted 'As to dissolving them, a.....' as AnonymousXX and I forgot to sign in, so now I'm putting my sign-in name on it so I can use it on my other websites. We are going to start a call for "disincorporation" of mandatory HOAs (without amenities)as soon as possible, as I am still researching the deeds and "land trusts" conveying this monstrous corporate HOA we are locked into.

AnonymousCAUGHT YA! Divadelemort! What's Up with GESTAPO "Talk?" I can cut and paste REALLY efficiently-so HERE YOU ARE-OUTED!I thought "NAZI" analogies were VERBOTEN!Hmmm? Better go get Sargent Schultze to arrest you. You see Ms. Divadelemort-you got all up in my face about your grandma's recollections and THEN you USED the ANALOGY about HOA control "tactics" that I made-by extension, regarding NAZI programming and tactics-yourself. WHAT on earth do you think the Gestapo did? They "terrorized and controlled" through both covert operations and overt operations, propaganda, word of mouth, control, control, control! You are probably not a bad person-you just think you are more intelligent than you really are. And it is okay not to be very intelligent, as long as you keep your lips closed and your fingers off the keyboards, no one can tell.

CUT AND PASTE OF divadelamort posting...

Submitted by divadelamort on Tue, 05/26/2009 - 6:24pm.
ok ok so when the hoa is acting like an hoa and not the gestapo most people are happy to pay, especially when they are recieving what the hoa promised them in ways of ammenties etc. the problem lies in when the hoa is not meeting what homeowners feel are the hoas obligations. Alot of times it feels like hoas make homeowners abide by rules but then dont follow any rules themselves. i think the best way to handle this is by simply doing away with hoas! I know this is simplistic but i feel it would be effective, what solutions do you all think would work?

» reply | email this comment | quote |

Our condo building has a ramp for commercial vehicles (delivers, contractor vans, moving vans, etc) because our city municipal code forbids overnight parking of commercial vehicles, our condo rule doesn't allow overnight parking on the ramp, and our condo declaration doesn't allow businesses to be run from our condos. One owner threatened a law suit if the board didn't allow him overnight use of the ramp for loading his wares from the business he runs from his condo. The board overturned the rule. I say that the board is breaking the law by creating a rule that breaks two laws. The city law that doesn't allow overnight parking of commercial vehicles and allowing an owner to continue running a business from his condo. His business spills over into tying up the ramp, tying up the elevators as he moves his wares in and out, his equipment ends up on the patio, and taking space in the garage, all of which should be common areas. Several of us did searches on all the laws, rules, condo act, declaration etc to show the law, but the board maintains it has the power and authority to make a rule, change a rule as it pleases. I say it can't make a rule or change a rule that results in breaking a law. And I further suggested that the board liability insurance that protects boards will not protect them now that they've been informed they've broken a rule. And that this change favors one person over fairness and equality for all. Am I right about this? We've gotten the votes to call a special meeting so all the owners ideas, opinions, questions can be heard, but what recourse do we have if the board still won't listen to us.

You have board of cowards. The owner has no right to run a business out of his condo, let alone expecting the other unit owners to subsidize it though inconvenience and aggravation. I'd start with roofing nails on the ramp. Send a message.

Is it true that our HOA board cannot create a rule that breaks a city state or federal law?
Is it true that if we do the research and inform the board that a rule they are creating breaks a law, that they would be liable and that their board liability insurance would not proect them?

I understand the concept of how and why HOA/POA organizations started. They began with developers meeting strong resistance from local governments developing land, because before HOA/POA were around these local governments were left with maintaining the streets, sewers, Police patrols, etc. and with limited funds that became a huge burden. Thus the HOA/POA concept was developed. That appeared to be a win-win for the local governments and their politians. They would see an increase in funds from the new taxes collected from the development with no cost to these enities.
Problem is since they are considered private companies with stock holders, any assistance a property owner needs to resolve abuses by these organizations is 99% of the time out of their persoal pockets, while the HOA/POA uses their own money against them. Most courts will rule in favor of these HOA/POA because if they collasped the local governments would have to step in and spend money they do not have.
The POA which I belong to has provisions for mail in ballots. These are to be delivered with self addressed and stamped envelopes. The stamp is not present. They have figured out a large number owners these days do not have stamps readily available, so the ballot is not returned. They have figured out people by nature are lazy and will not go out to purchase a stamp.
Our bylaws state that only members in GOOD STANDING may vote. Our bylaws clearly state a proceedure to suspend a member(Not expell). This includes a hearing in which a member has the right to legal counsel. Our board has decided that is a waste of time and now state if anyone is late on their dues they can not vote, wihtout a hearing. Example: My fees were due April 30th, I did not pay until July 3rd. Invoice states a late fee of $10 and 7% penalty if paid after that date. Since I did not know if the late fee was per lot and how the 7% was calculated I sent in only the dues protion expecting to be notified what the total other charges would be.
I was informed by a sitting board member that I would not get a ballot for the Sept 26 election. I confronted the board at the Sept 13 meeting and asked how much I owed. They did not know, yet I was denied my vote. After 2 1/2 months even they could not tell me amount due, yet continued to deny my right to vote. This is only a small incident compared to other things this POA board has & is doing. 51% of the membership were denied the right to vote because in one form or another the board with held their ballot. Not one member of my POA has ever had a hearing. I and many others have insisted that the board consult with an attorney on this matter. They refuse.
Thousands of soldiers killed untold thousands of family men in wars, because they treasured their right to vote, and the men they killed were representing a communistic form of government in which a few denied the majority the right to vote. Sadly this is what is happening now in many HOA/POA.
Now the only option is to spend money none of us have and retain private counsel to gain our rights to vote, with only a slim chance the court will correct this problem.

Are they changing the budget or the assessment? If it is still under developer control, most states prohibit the raising of assessments. The developer is generally responsible for the budget shortfall. Is the developer solvent?

Our paperwork says revised budget. and the developer is handing over the hoa as of june 1st and that was just told to me on the phone this week thats going to be a big surprise to everybody at this meeting because it was supposed to be done jan. 2010 which is more bad news because i think the debt we have now is going to be nothing compared to what they are leaving us with that are under contracts such as our cable contract for 200K per year rediculous

How big is your HOA? 494k in bad debt represents 309 homes not paying for an entire year.

678.00 AND THIS INCLUDES THE EMPTY LOTS OWNED BY BANKS. Thants the problem we are all having is the # they have come up with is impossible, but our meeting is tonight so i am keeping my fingers and toes crossed that we as a community do not have to hire an attorney but its looking that way after talking to several home owners.

678 homes/lots not dollars sorry

the 494K is only the bad debt they are wanting 1.2 million per year to be paid from about only 400 or less residence

How did the meeting go? What action is the HOA going to take?

Learn how to reply so that your comments make sense.

You aren't very good at math. .09% of Arizona Homeowners Surveyed (based on your numbers would be correct).

Using your numbers, and doing a little more math, using that sample size, you can say with 95% certainty, their numbers are accurate to withun plus or minus 3%. Most researches use the 95% confidence level.

Yes, but you said it equaled 0.0009 Percent. Which it does not. You better double down on the pills and take a math class.

I'm starting to think you are not old enough to post to this site. Are you actually a homeowner in an HOA?

I agree vocabulary and verboseness aren't necessarily signs of education or intelligence.

( although I myself am long winded, I can not spell my way out of a bag)

We should be judging ideas on their merit and not nit picking at the incendentals.

I am sorry but converting decimals to percentages is not calculus.

I think the point AnonymousX1 is trying to make is that the number surveyed was appropriate to reach the conclusiond arrived at by an independent firm. They are not facts but the results of a survey. So what is "ignorance ... coupled with the arrogance of the transparently uninformed"? You never finished your thought.

*rolls eyes, then pops a pill*

The problem you were having was converting a decimal to a percentage not converting a fraction to a decimal.

I don't think anyone was proclaiming themselves as "know-it-alls". Simply because they don't share your opinion shouldn't automatically classify them as "self-proclaimed know it-alls", "morons", "bitches", "deficit", "grammar and mathematically challenged", "bitches", or someone that "do(es) not understand". Having a different opinion than you shouldn't mean that they are "defend(ing) the indefensible", or they are "incapable of posting any substantive message", or should be "sitting at the kiddies' table". But, unfortunately, you believe that. I thought this forum was meant for people to share their opinions. Your opinion is no more valid than anyone else. And you have to admit, there has to be hundreds of people out there that no more about HOA's than you or I do. So relax. You seem to be taking things a little too personally. I am going to take your advice and take a couple of pills and go to bed.

Sorry, I doubled up on the "bitches". It wasn't intentional. Or was it?

Yes, and "know more" not "no more".

Really dude! I think the branch of mathematics you are thinking of is arithmetic. Calculus is a discipline in mathematics focused on limits, functions, derivatives, integrals, and infinite series. There isn't anyone that would consider converting decimals to percentages as part of what you would learn in a calculus class.

The most important thing to remember in any argument is to know when to admit you are wrong and move on. So you made a mistake. Big deal. Going on and on trying to justify it just makes you look stupid.

Dont you love how if you make one typo or mistake they jump all over it and exploit it so that noone every really discusses the idea that was being presented. Are you happy with your HOA? Do you feel your dues are reasonable? What ammenties does your HOA offer?

P.S.
while i am sorry you got picked on, i think more people are unhappy with the hoa industry than your poll suggests

And now you look stupid.

Ahhhhh . . . , he is back in all his glory and profound wisdom.

The bully is getting himself into a position to steal the association blind-- from contractor kickbacks to ham-fisted cash grabs-- soon he will become president, and if he's smart, align himself with CAI contractor/management/law firms to assist in the looting. Unfortunately, most of the members will be too timid to do what is necessary to stop him; worse, others drawn to his power, will circle under his skirt and support him.

From my experience, the good citizen approach via endless meetings, note taking, and lawyer meetings will destroy you. The problem is in most jurisdictions HOA theft and malfeasance are treated as a civil rather than as criminal matters.

The hard reality is that life as you've known it is over. Your previously "wonderful and civil" building will be in constant turmoil as sides are chosen among the owners, unnecessary and overpriced, padded projects are undertaken, assessments levied, and dues raised to support all the chaos and craziness.

The only viable option is to quietly explore self-help measures to neutralize the threat, but first you must learn as much as you can about the bully. In other words, instead of researching statutes, CCRs, start researching him! Is he married? Is she fat? Loved starved? Does he have a criminal record? What cars does he own? Plate numbers? Medical problems? What is his diet? Physical conditioning? Pot belly? Weapons? Weapons training?

Then you have to ask yourself: "What would Jack Bauer do?"

The HOA board members should bear a lot of legal responsibility for the moronic nonsense, perpetrated fraud, and harassment of HOA "homeowners!" If at all possible take them to court and try to seize their "assets." Some day it will all come back and bite them in the ass!! Let's hope 2010 is the year of HOA "homeowners" revenge and justice.

here is one

So file a complaint about their tree?